SPL/ASPL

[sst3rd]

I can't find anything on this in BSA documentation, so I'll refer to you folks. I have an SPL who is excellent, but only a couple of months into his 6 month term. He selected his ASPL, and although things started okay, things have since gone down hill. Both of these Scouts were trained in their positions, but both feel it is a competition. The SPL wants the ASPL to knows whose boss, because the ASPL is always trying to take over leadership whenever possible. I've talked, advised, and even trained some more, but it's still the same.

Anyway, the SPL wants to go back to his Patrol and help his friend the new PL. What happens to the ASPL? I have many years of Scouting experience, and it tells me that since the SPL chooses his assistant, the ASPL also goes back to his old Patrol.

Then the Troop has a new SPL election, and the new SPL again selects his assistant.

Thoughts???? Opinions ???? Has this happened to you ? I would assume the same thing with the PL. If he leaves or is removed early, the APL goes too.

 

sst3rd

[VentureScoutNY]

 

sst3rd,

 

"Then the Troop has a new SPL election, and the new SPL again selects his assistant." sst3rd

 

Correct.

 

If he chooses to leave they will both step down. Hopefully that can be avoided though, especially if he has not finished his 6 months. If he has already completed his 6 months and is ready to step down than disregaurd the following.

 

Competition should not be alive between the SPL and ASPL. They should be working as a team. That's why he picked the ASPL isn't it? I can understand a boy who wants to hold the reigns, as this SPL and ASPL are in battle for. Try to have the SPL delagate certain responsibilities onto the ASPL. This will teach him leadership skills of his own if one day he decides to run for SPL. As an assistant though, he can get first hand experience with what has to be done, without having to be in total control. It's really a great oppertunity to learn from the SPL.

 

Goodluck, and keep us updated!

 

[Eagle1973]

Sounds like your SPL has a self-confidence issue. Work on that w/ him. The SPL can let the ASPL run with the ball as long as he remains abreast of what the ASPL is doing.

[Fat Old Guy]

" The SPL can let the ASPL run with the ball as long as he remains abreast of what the ASPL is doing."

 

I would say that the SPL needs to give the ASPL the ball before any running starts.

 

 

[CubsRgr8]

Maybe I'm missing something, but didn't the SPL choose the ASPL? Therefore, can't the SPL dismiss the ASPL if things aren't working out? for whatever reason?

[buffalo2]

I'd think that the ASPL would (should) have enough on his plate with his other duties to really do too much damage to the SPLs efforts? Maybe a bit more difficult in a smaller Troop, but all the same he needs to understand that he's the junior partner...

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

He wants to leave after only two months? This sounds like a very young scout, 13 or younger. That would make sense because he hasn't developed the confidence to be a leader yet, at least at the SPL level.

 

What he learns now will stay with him forever, so my thoughts are to get what positive learning from the situation that you can.

 

With what you have given us, I would sit down and explain that a leader is usually the rudder of the ship. It is a very small part of the overall workings of the whole ship. However it is very important to making sure the ship stays on course. He is responsible for keeping the PLC on track towards its goals. Now I don't know what your Troops goals are, but usually the younger and more inexperienced the SPL, the simpler his goals.

 

Guide him that this ASPL will give him practice with others like him. Teach him to use the ASPLs energy to achieving his troops goals. Guide him to run a good PLC meeting that sets the troop in motion and delegates task to keep the program on track. After that, all he has to do is watch and make sure everyone is doing their job, especially the ASPL. If the ASPL does all the work after that, all the better for the SPL.

 

I found that in a six month period, troop junior leaders work very hard the first two months trying to be great leaders, take the next two months off and let the troop fall to it's knees because they burned out the first two months, then spend the last two months working very hard again trying to save face. I imagine that giving him some room, the ASPL just might burn down and let the SPL take on some of the load. And if not, well the SPL has a good hard worker. Make sure you keep working with the SPL as the Troop leader. The ASPL does the work, but make sure the SPL gets his share of the credit and the privileges that come with the job, like maybe supper with the adults. Work with the ASPL as a servant as well and the supporter of the SPL and a team builder. IF he steps over the line, call him on it and guide him.

 

If you let the SPL go back to the patrol, he may not come back. As for the ASPL, hopefully he learns how to work as a team and what happens when he doesn't.

 

Good luck, I know it's always hard trying to do the best thing with these guys.

 

Barry

 

[KoreaScouter]

Without knowing the lads or the situation, it appears at first glance to be a "fight or flight" situation for him -- he appears to be leaning toward "flight". The argument about helping the PL in his old patrol sounds like a smoke screen...

 

It's not uncommon for a new SPL to feel overwhelmed, especially if the ASPL's part of the problem, not part of the solution. I agree with those who suggest finding a new ASPL.

 

There's other implications here, too. First, the lads voted for him because they thought he was best for the job. What does a "referendum" say about the democratic process within the Troop? Second, again without knowing the SPL's rank or advancement status, I'll assume he's at least a First Class Scout, and needs the POR for advancement. If he goes back to his patrol, does his own advancement go on hold for four months? Finally, if both those Scouts stick around long enough, they'll be in similar competitive situations over and over again -- you'll have to deal with this eventually. Don't get me wrong, I think competition's great, but not when the result is to undermine someone else's position or authority.

 

Good luck.

 

KS

[acco40]

Is the SPL named Bush and the ASPL named Cheney? Sorry, could not resist.

 

What are the duties of the ASPL? Does the ASPL know what they are? It seems to me that his duties with respect to training and supervising the Troop Scribe, Quartermaster, Instructor, Librarian, Historian, and Chaplain Aide would keep him busy. I agree with others about trying to work with the SPL (as SM) but if he does step down, one of the duties of the ASPL is to serve as SPL in his absence. I would not hold another election. However, I'd do my best to make sure that a coup d'etat did not take place!

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[firstpusk]

Hard to tell the root of the problem without knowing the exact nature of the conflict. I would sit the two of them down and talk about the troop.

What are the problems? The answer can't be the other guy. Instead we want to pinpoint areas of concern to be addressed.

 

What are the priorities? Get both of them on the same page of which problem gets attacked first, second, etc.

 

What are the resources? Get an understanding of what we have and what we need to get the job done.

 

What needs to be done? It doesn't really matter who does it. What matters is that the actions taken address the problem identified.

 

Once you get the two of them working on a shared/agreed agenda, a lot of the reason for the competition goes away. The important thing is training boy leaders. I would take this exercise very seriously. I would talk with both sets of parents with a goal of gaining support "at home" for working together and getting the job done. If you know the parents and think they can work with you, a meeting with you, the CC and them might be appropriate.

 

This kind of conflict is extremely unhealthy for the organization and all involved. These boys are focusing on their personal rivalry to the detriment of the troop. Ask them to run the law on their behavior - think about how such behavior is untrustworthy, unloyal, etc.

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

The SPL should have a nice friendly chat with his assistant. The two of them should discuss who is in charge, what each is responisble for, and such. If at the end of the chat the ASPL still isn't part of the solution, then he is part of the problem and must be asked to step down.

[Proud Eagle]

The SPL should have a nice friendly chat with his assistant. The two of them should discuss who is in charge, what each is responisble for, and such. If at the end of the chat the ASPL still isn't part of the solution, then he is part of the problem and must be asked to step down.

[sst3rd]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts. The SPL and ASPL are Star Scouts. The SPL is a natural leader that all the Scouts like. He participates in several sports, and although yet not a star, works very hard at it. He's 15. The ASPL is 14, and been in the Troop longer. His parents bring that up. He loves Scouts, and his parents made him choose between Scouts and playing sports (they wouldn't let him do both). So, he puts a lot into it. Has a big heart, but lets his vocal attributes sound off a little too much. The younger Scouts like him, but the older Scouts think he hangs with the adults too much.

We have a campout this weekend, and I hope to iron this all out with their input.

 

Thanks all,

 

sst3rd