New member with issue

[Bobbys_mommy]

Thanks Brian. I am in the process of drafting an e-mail to the SE. Taking my time and waiting to see what news comes of the situation this week.

There's so much more, it's just impossible to explain it all as I'd be here all day and I have a family to attend to. I just want to make sure if we walk away, at the very least changes are made to make it worth our sacrifice and ensure it never happens again. I'd hate for another passionate little cub scout's heart to be crushed the way ours has. 

[ItsBrian]

1 minute ago, Bobbys_mommy said:

Thanks Brian. I am in the process of drafting an e-mail to the SE. Taking my time and waiting to see what news comes of the situation this week.

There's so much more, it's just impossible to explain it all as I'd be here all day and I have a family to attend to. I just want to make sure if we walk away, at the very least changes are made to make it worth our sacrifice and ensure it never happens again. I'd hate for another passionate little cub scout's heart to be crushed the way ours has. 

I also forgot to ask, was the Pack committee involved or only the district?

I might’ve missed it when I was reading, sorry if I did.

[Bobbys_mommy]

I don't know that there is a "Pack committee" The cubmaster sits on the committee, but it is not separate from the boy scout committee. Money is not kept separate either, and recently we were all informed that we are $600 in the negative and need to kick butt fundraising. I asked where the $600 went, given that we don't do any activities or go anywhere that costs money... Our questions were ignored. They just pushed the fundraising issue. My concern was that if someone has their hand in the kitty whom shouldn't, and if that situation was not explored & rectified first, we could fundraise all we want, but we'd just be putting more money in that person's pocket. 

So, in answer to your question, the committee was there at the meeting that I was told would only be us as parents, the cubmaster, and 2 people from district. However most of that committee are boy scout leaders and have nothing to do with the cub scout pack at all. They certainly had no involvement with the incident in question. 

I've recently found out all sorts of things by attending classes at University of Scouting that I never knew before. It's an old boys system down there and I've ruined it for them. Nothing was being run the way that it should and now with districts' eyes close on them they have to make all the changes they never wanted to. So again, I'm happy to be hated if it brings about a positive result.

I just think it's highly unfair to our son. But it is their loss honestly, because they just lost 2 leaders they couldn't afford to lose, who made generous donations to the pack, and a future eagle scout in a time when they are quite hard-up for boy scouts in general (they have 4). And they have no Webelos about to cross over to Boy Scouts, and most of the parents only stay 1 year, because it is run so poorly that no one wants to stay longer.

It's all very sad really.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Bobbys_mommy

[David CO]

3 hours ago, Bobbys_mommy said:

I don't know that there is a "Pack committee" The cubmaster sits on the committee, but it is not separate from the boy scout committee. Money is not kept separate either, and recently we were all informed that we are $600 in the negative and need to kick butt fundraising. I asked where the $600 went, given that we don't do any activities or go anywhere that costs money... Our questions were ignored. They just pushed the fundraising issue. My concern was that if someone has their hand in the kitty whom shouldn't, and if that situation was not explored & rectified first, we could fundraise all we want, but we'd just be putting more money in that person's pocket. 

Every scout unit has a committee. The pack committee is separate from the troop committee, on paper, but it possible that their members are dual registered, in both units, making it appear as if there is only one committee.

Every unit has a Chartered Organization Representative. If the Chartered Organization has more than one unit, such as a pack and a troop, the same person will be the COR for both units, since a Chartered Organization can only have one COR.

The COR may or may not be a member of the committee, as the COR may dual register in one other position in the unit, such as committee chairman or committee member.

All of the pack funds are the property of the Chartered Organization. The CO can let each unit keep their funds in separate accounts, it can hold both of its units' funds together in one account, or it can deposit the funds directly into the CO's accounts. The decision is up to the CO.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by David CO

[David CO]

3 hours ago, Bobbys_mommy said:

 

I've recently found out all sorts of things by attending classes at University of Scouting that I never knew before. It's an old boys system down there and I've ruined it for them. Nothing was being run the way that it should and now with districts' eyes close on them they have to make all the changes they never wanted to. So again, I'm happy to be hated if it brings about a positive result.

 

I think it is great that you are trying to learn more about your son's favorite activity.

As you learn more about the nuts and bolts of scouting, you will understand that the district does not normally try to force changes on the unit. The district is supposed to be a recourse for the unit.

What the district can do is bring concerns to the attention of the Chartered Organization. The CO owns the unit. The CO can make changes.

My guess is that this is what the district was trying to do at your meeting. It was trying to bring your concerns to the attention of the Chartered Organization. The Chartered Organization Representative might have been one of the people at the meeting.

 

[Bobbys_mommy]

Yes David, that would be the cubmaster's father, the person at the meeting who was pretending that he needed to be held back from saying or doing something to me, as though he was going to haul off and hit a woman or something.

 

Parents have NEVER been invited to committee meetings, most don't even know they exist. Leaders were invited once, but after that we were told that our attendance was unnecessary going forward. I was told I was only needed at that 1 meeting to "take notes" because the cubmaster couldn't make it.

 

I'm finding out now that no one can tell us whether we can or should attend meetings. They are supposed to be open to everyone, every parent. District is trying to correct this issue, which is why I'm only drafting an e-mail at this point, not yet sending it. 

 

Committee members lied at this meeting, claiming that all parents have always been invited and made to feel welcome to attend committee meetings. Today is actually the first time they are hearing anything about it.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Bobbys_mommy said:

 

I'm finding out now that no one can tell us whether we can or should attend meetings. They are supposed to be open to everyone, every parent. 

 

That is not entirely true. The COR can ban individuals from unit meetings and/or activities if they are deemed to be dangerous or disruptive.

Also, a scout unit is supposed to have open meetings, but the unit is not required to allow attendees to speak or actively participate in the meetings. A unit can have an "observe only" policy for attendees. If the unit does allow attendees to address the committee and/or participate in discussions, it can have rules to limit or regulate the way this is done.

Attendees at committee meetings are obliged to follow the rules, speak only if and when they have the floor, and obey the instructions of the committee chairman. A committee meeting is just that... a meeting. It is not a free-for-all.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by David CO

[David CO]

Unfortunately, some people will confuse unit committee meetings with the White House Correspondents Dinner. ☹️

A unit committee meeting exists for the purpose of conducting the business of the unit. It is not there to give individuals an opportunity to spout off at the unit leaders with insults, accusations, or defamatory comments.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by David CO

[Bobbys_mommy]

David, I'm not sure what brought all that on or if it applies to this situation. We've gotten a bit far off of the original topic. 

I've already been advised by a friend who is a DC (of a different district) how all this is supposed to work, how our meeting should have gone, and so forth. He's really pretty ticked off about what has happened to us here. I was really posting here to get other opinions on what our next step should be, if there is one, for comparison.

But bottom line, district is insisting on all parents being invited to a committee meeting this coming week to share their comments, complaints on how the pack is being run, etc. District will be there running that meeting to make sure everyone's voices are heard. This all came about today, after my original post.

It sounds like maybe you're speaking from experience when you refer to a "free-for-all" and that makes me sad. There needs to be communication on both sides but when one side becomes disruptive, disrespectful or out-of-control, it ruins it for everybody. It is true, sometimes parents fail to act like adults. In our case I think it was more the leadership failing to act as an adult.

But given recent developments I am saving that e-mail unfinished in my draft folder. We are going to let this play out and hope for the best.

I really appreciate all the time and thought you've put into this though! I personally am hoping for a non-free-for-all. I know what the parents complaints are because they've shared them with me and I've tried to voice them to leadership to no avail. Hopefully now that district is involved, their voices will be heard and positive change will take place. 

[David CO]

45 minutes ago, Bobbys_mommy said:

 

But bottom line, district is insisting on all parents being invited to a committee meeting this coming week to share their comments, complaints on how the pack is being run, etc. District will be there running that meeting to make sure everyone's voices are heard. This all came about today, after my original post.

 

I was an IH who was very protective of the rights of the Chartered Organization. The district has no right to take over a unit committee meeting. I would disband the unit before I would let the district take it over.

I sympathize with the ends that you wish to achieve, but I strongly disagree with the means.

[Bobbys_mommy]

What means? It's pretty out of my hands at the moment...

An adult leader bullying a child is unacceptable. I feel I did nothing wrong reporting that to district. I'd do it all again. I have no desire to infringe on anyone's rights, but my son has rights and should be treated properly, and anyone who chooses not to do so deserves to be reported. Not my fault all this other stuff came out because of it.

New news! Went to transfer my boys records to a new pack. All that has ever been reported to district is 1 belt loop and his Bobcat, which he earned his first month of scouting. NOTHING else from the past 2 years. The child has no room left on his belt for anymore belt loops...

Edited April 29, 2018 by Bobbys_mommy

[Thunderbird]

When you say "committee meeting" do you mean "district committee meeting", "council committee meeting", or "pack committee meeting"?  There are different levels.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

When you say "committee meeting" do you mean "district committee meeting", "council committee meeting", or "pack committee meeting"?  There are different levels.

Good point. I was assuming that Bobbys_mommy was talking about a unit committee meeting. If it is some other kind of meeting, the unit leaders could simply choose to not attend,  like President Trump and the White House Correspondents Dinner. 

That actually makes more sense. I don't know how a district could call for a meeting on the Chartered Organization's property. Let them hold their gripe session at the council office.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by David CO

[Jameson76]

There appears to be a lot going on with that pack....

Seems to be a good bit of blending with the Pack / Troop / Committee (s??) / etc as the terms seem to be used interchangebly

[Bobbys_mommy]

As I said before, we've never been invited or welcomed to these committee meetings so it's hard to know what is going on there. 

My main goal is to make sure that no child is ever treated as badly as mine was. It takes a special kind of ignorance for an adult to bully a special needs child.

We can go back and forth about all this other stuff all day, for multiple days, but that's what it boils down to for me. We are walking away to protect our child. Just trying to make sure we're not leaving it open for anything like that to be done to another child.