CSE Letter on GSUSA Infringements

[fred johnson]

11 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Obviously, there are not a high number of girl-centric patrol patches already in existence (though I did surprisingly find a Power Puffs Girls cartoon patrol patch called Cartoon Power on Class B - http://tradingpost.classb.com/cartoon-power-patrol-patch/ and I had to wonder which existing patrol would use such?!?).

Class B girl-oriented patches should be fine.  I see no issue with that.  

[Hawkwin]

3 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

Class B girl-oriented patches should be fine.

Yes, but there are virtually none (which makes sense). I went through about 20 pages on three different sites and the one I linked above was nearly the only one I found. One other we discussed: http://tradingpost.classb.com/official-licensed-fire-breathing-ducky-patrol-patch/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5PTQ3q7Y2gIVzrXACh3vQgZVEAQYAyABEgInPPD_BwE We would call it "Tough Chicks Patrol " instead of "Fire Breathing Duckies Patrol"

I plan to send Class B a custom design or two and I would bet dollar to donuts both could be top 10 sellers by this time next year. I should request a royalty fee.

[Treflienne]

19 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Obviously, there are not a high number of girl-centric patrol patches already in existence (though I did surprisingly find a Power Puffs Girls cartoon patrol patch called Cartoon Power on Class B - http://tradingpost.classb.com/cartoon-power-patrol-patch/ and I had to wonder which existing patrol would use such?!?).

 

6 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

Class B girl-oriented patches should be fine.  I see no issue with that.  

Why do you think that the girls will want "girl-centric" or "girl-oriented" patches?   Their interests (especially for girls willing to join an organization called "Boy Scouts") are much broader than that.

By the way,  I am also horrified by pink tools for girls and pastel building-block sets.   If you give girls primarily that kind of stuff you are essentially saying that everything else is not for them. 

[Eagle1993]

Based on the what I have heard I would be careful of holding any joint meetings/events without GSUSA local council approval.  We had discussed this has a Pack but now I do not plan to pursue.  I have no desire to have our school GSUSA leaders grilled by council (parent only meetings, treasurer record review, etc.).  

[Hawkwin]

10 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

Why do you think that the girls will want "girl-centric" or "girl-oriented" patches?

Because my cub scout daughter does. I doubt she is unique. She wanted something that would illustrate the unique nature of what she would be doing. Now don't get me wrong, she loved a bunch of different patches, especially the silly ones but when I suggested we look for a specific [but undisclosed] patch of some sort, her eyes doubled in size at the suggestion. Later that day, I overheard her telling her mom about just how excited she was about the idea of her potential patrol name and patch.

I will share the details once Class B finishes their custom design. I don't want to give away my royalties.

[SSScout]

""All Scouting is Local""     I foresee the local Pack/Troop folks doing what they feel benefits THEIR kids.  National GSUSA has alienated many in the field with the byzantine requirements about money, membership number limitations,  no male leadership allowed ,  activities defined by Council only,  I have heard many.....  

Joint Pinewood Derbies?  Where is the harm in that?   Joint GSUSA/BSA hikes? Camps?   My BSA Troop did that back in the stone age (1960's).  What's the harm?  

If we (BSA) stay true to the Promise and the Law, and remember the Golden Rule,  I say we will be serving our youth and assuring our future. 

See you on the trail. 

[Treflienne]

42 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I plan to send Class B a custom design

I missed reading this before I wrote my not-quite-simultaneous post.   A custom design sounds great!    Much better than just picking something someone else has made.

GSUSA does troop crests rather than patrol patches.   For years they used to make available blank troop crests, so that troops could embroider their own if they didn't like any of the available styles.   But they discontinued this when they changed the shape of the troop crest and reduced the number of options to sixteen.   My daughter's troop didn't like any of them and so skipped the troop crest entirely.

[Jameson76]

37 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Based on the what I have heard I would be careful of holding any joint meetings/events without GSUSA local council approval.  We had discussed this has a Pack but now I do not plan to pursue.  I have no desire to have our school GSUSA leaders grilled by council (parent only meetings, treasurer record review, etc.).  

[Saltface]

 

20 hours ago, Saltface said:

Does this mean we can't use their patches for patrol patches?  

 

3 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

Do people do that?  (I do realize there is a smiley-face there, but if there is a joke here, I am missing it.)

A joke, but a lame joke. I've seen just about everything used as a patrol patch (and a patrol flag): military insignia, biker patches, and even one patrol that wanted to use the Eagle Scout patch. They wanted to be the Eagle Scout Patrol (they weren't all Eagles, the Eagle Scout was their critter). That plan was abandoned when they realized how much grief they would get for having an Eagle Scout patch in the wrong location on their uniforms (among other considerations).

I think trademark infringement is the last thing on a boy's mind when he's looking for patch for his patrol.

[Jameson76]

2 minutes ago, Saltface said:

 

 

A joke, but a lame joke. I've seen just about everything used as a patrol patch (and a patrol flag): military insignia, biker patches, and even one patrol that wanted to use the Eagle Scout patch. They wanted to be the Eagle Scout Patrol (they weren't all Eagles, the Eagle Scout was their critter). That plan was abandoned when they realized how much grief they would get for having an Eagle Scout patch in the wrong location on their uniforms (among other considerations).

I think trademark infringement is the last thing on a boy's mind when he's looking for patch for his patrol.

There was a short lived Playboy Patrol in Atlanta in the 70's, they had even scheduled bunnies to come present the patrol patches.  Then the angry fist of BSA sensibilities came down on the young scouts

[Gwaihir]

1 minute ago, Jameson76 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Treflienne said:

 

Why do you think that the girls will want "girl-centric" or "girl-oriented" patches?   Their interests (especially for girls willing to join an organization called "Boy Scouts") are much broader than that.

By the way,  I am also horrified by pink tools for girls and pastel building-block sets.   If you give girls primarily that kind of stuff you are essentially saying that everything else is not for them. 

you're entitled to your opinion and may be horrified by it, but others are not.    My daughter likes "girl-centric" things, she likes pinks and purples and pastels.  If having power tools, hand tools and other maker type stuff is available in colors she likes, it empowers her to want to learn to use those things.   My wife loves to hike, dig in the dirt, get her hands dirty, but then still loves to dress to the nines in dresses, wear makeup, get her hair and nails done, etc. It's not outlandish for human girls to like "girl things",even if you find them horrific. 

[qwazse]

Daughter can't stand pink.

As far as folks in my family who would wear it on regular occasion, Mrs. Q, to her regret, once bought me a pink Oxford shirt. Loved that thing. I made it look good. Wore it to work at least once a week and church at least once a month.

But, most feminine patrol patch? Well, I would argue for cobra patrol. Females of the species tend to be larger and, supposedly sport grander hoods.

[Hawkwin]

Order submitted. Will share the artist mock-up when it is done.

We looked at both "Valkyrie" and "Artemis" but she settled on Valkyrie. I preferred the mythic of Artemis more but it is her patch of course. As soon as she saw a winged heroin in armor with a sword, she was hooked.

[clemlaw]

I didn't get all of the details, and it sounds like they were short on details.

But when my wife got back from Girl Scout® roundtable (it's not called that, but you get the idea), she was told that they were "not allowed to do anything with the Boy Scouts."

The ostensible reason for this was that some Boy Scout literature somewhere used GSUSA®  logos or names or something without permission.  Supposedly because the Boy Scouts did this, it suddenly became impossible for any GSUSA® unit anywhere in the country to "do anything with" the Boy Scouts.  The exact reason for this impossibility was not explained.

My wife pointed out that if they aren't present when the Boy Scouts do recruiting, then this will be counterproductive to the GSUSA®.   But it's still impossible.

So the distinct impression that I got was that they are not happy with the Boy Scouts, and to express this displeasure, they want to make sure that the Boy Scouts don't even dream of using anything that's even remotely their intellectual property. 

I think the takeaway from this is that we should be careful not to do things like quote famous Girl Scout® leaders.  And if we do, they won't be able to "do anything with" us.

Edited April 27, 2018 by clemlaw

[RememberSchiff]

Nothing lost there for our unit though annually we have courteously allowed an unnamed youth group to stop in on troop meeting and take cookie orders. I wonder if that will stop.