Eagle94-A1 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 Actually I was referring to the Scout in question resisting advice and counseling and not my son. As for my my son resisting advice to appointing him APL, there is advice, counseling, and mentoring, versus coaching and dictating what you will do. I'll give you an example of the difference. Adults asking the PLC to come up with ways to fix the patrol problem is counseling, mentoring advising. Adults telling the PLC and Scout their terms of office is now 4 months,and instead of electing the SPL they will be electing the ASPL who will move up to SPL automatically is dictating. If my son wa asked to consider the Scout, that is one thing. But if it becomes you will appoint him APL, that is dictating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 You gave me the impression that your son has his eye on the JASM position. I'm sure you know that an appointment to this position requires the approval of the "adults" in your unit. I think your son is taking his eye off the ball. He should be trying his best to prove to the "adults" that he has the right stuff to be a JASM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 Actually he isn't out to be a JASM. Sadly, JASM is not properly utilized in the troop IMHO. It is a "gimmee" or "muligan" position in which those who are coasting to Eagle get. They don't mentor, counsel, or advise anyone. Only real advantage to JASM in my troop is that they are the only Scouts allowed to sign off on advancement. PLs, Instructors, SPL, etc are not allowed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 I cannot think of a surer sign that the troop is adult led and run than the Instructors and SPL being forbidden to sign anything off . The canary isn't looking sick, it's dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson76 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said: I cannot think of a surer sign that the troop is adult led and run than the Instructors and SPL being forbidden to sign anything off . The canary isn't looking sick, it's dead. Agree - we have Life / Eagle youth scouts sign off on advancement. Gets the younger scouts to have conversations with the older scouts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Oldscout448 said: I cannot think of a surer sign that the troop is adult led and run than the Instructors and SPL being forbidden to sign anything off . The canary isn't looking sick, it's dead. I just remembered one case from 15 years back that might just be even more telling. The new SM arbitrarily canceled all elections and appointed the SPL, and PLs. The troop was quickly reduced in size from 35 to about 20 as most of the older scouts quit en mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 Agree, I do not like the fact that PLs, Instructors, ASPL, SPL, and those assigned to teach skills cannot sign off. That was SOP in my troop growing up. It was also SOP for the PLs, ASPL, and SPL to sit on BORs, until national no longer allowed it in 1989. I was shocked when I found out that our first JASM would be allowed to sign off requirements. Now the other 2 JASMs can do it. One of the ASMs, in fact the Scout above's dad, was dead set against having Scouts sign off on requirements. Apparently when he was a Scout, he had challenges with the other Scouts not signing off his advancement when he demonstrated the skills. For the longest time he stated that the older Scouts do not know the skills well enough to teach them and sign off on them. I guess he changed his mind when his oldest was made a JASM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) If the older scouts do not know the skills well enough to teach them, then obviously the adults have failed to properly teach the older scouts. Example let us assume a new troop Year 1. The SM teaches totin' chip Year 2 SM. has a class with the scouts on how to teach before the next crop of webelos arrive. The scouts then teach while the SM. sits in back and makes necessary corrections. hopefully minor. Year 3 The younger scouts teach the newbies while the older scouts sit in back making necessary corrections. The SM. sits 50 feet away listening, sipping his coffee, and smiling. this is boy scouting Edited April 25, 2018 by Oldscout448 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 11:18 AM, HashTagScouts said: This Scout may not listen, he may even have a barrier that doesn't allow him to fully comprehend, but if your son wanted to "help" him, selecting him as APL might be a good thing. Your son could simply tell him that he recognizes Scout didn't win, that he wants a POR to advance, and that this could be an opportunity to show everyone else he is a worthy leader. APL is quite often seen as a "do nothing" position, but, I give PLs encouragement all the time to invite their APL to PLC's- they might only be a fly on the wall 99% of the time, but nothing stops the PL from having a debrief after the meeting with their APL and get their opinions or even ask if they would have voted differently and why, or if there was something else that should have been discussed that wasn't, etc. That can be helpful to the PL and their growth as a leader as well. APL isn't a POR for advancement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 17 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said: Considering A) the announcement to change the election cycle from 6 months to 4 months surprised all of the youth and B) they also moved up the election a month so that the incoming PLC can go through "training" ( Not ILST but something an ASM is coming up with, don't ask not happy about it), several Scouts who had not considered running decided to run. Heck Middle Son was going to run unopposed, when someone said they would run at the last minute. But from his actions, from the way my son was describing it, he was more than a little miffed. And it wasn't just at my son, but his entire patrol. Why would you have the election cycle at 4 months? Life and Eagle require 6 months in a position. If it was a Scout decision, it's fine, but if it's an adult decision, it's just wrong. Do you mean that this election was held only 3 months after the prior position holders came into office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 @Oldscout448, You know that. I know that. Some of the other adults don't know it, or don't get it. It's been an uphill battle to get it more Scout led over the past 3 years. It seems as if we take steps forward, then backwards. @perdidochas SM came up with that since A) read about 3 month cycles on a blog and thought it was too short and B) Scouts could run for office outside of their sports seasons. Regaridng Advancement, the POR time can eb from multiple positions, i.e. 3 months SPL, 3 months QM. It was an adult decision, but some of the Scouts do like it. I agreed with it since I was getting what I think the troop really needed: monthly PLC meetings. Current SPL, PLs, and other office holders have a full 6 months as normal, for us until the end of May. Incoming group will hold office until September. Next group October -January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Sorry , If I had stopped and thought I would have realized I was" preaching to the choir" I guess it's still a knee jerk issue with me after all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 55 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said: Sorry , If I had stopped and thought I would have realized I was" preaching to the choir" I guess it's still a knee jerk issue with me after all these years. NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!!!!!!! It is a good to have it a a kneejerk reaction. And I bet you also bang your head everytime you tell folks and they ignore you or think they know better than BSA. At least I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said: NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!!!!!!! It is a good to have it a a kneejerk reaction. And I bet you also bang your head everytime you tell folks and they ignore you or think they know better than BSA. At least I do. Yup, it keeps me from banging their heads on the nearest wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WisconsinMomma Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Why not give both boys a little bit of time to cool off. Elections can be emotional, and rejection can be rough. Give it some time and neither one is right to try to punish the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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