AP NEWS: Thousands of girls joining boys as Cub Scouts

[Tampa Turtle]

17 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

When it comes to the issuance of debt, such entities can do a lot of creative things. Nothing would necessarily (absent some written rules against such) keep them from simply issuing new debt to pay off the balloon payments. I can be rather easy to kick that can down the road if need be.

Now interest rates are likely to be much higher then so the debt service is likely to be more expensive if they do that.

I agree. I think as long as the actuals don't look too dire that BSA may cash in some "brand nostalgia" to get someone help them kick the can a bit longer. But I don't see how some cost escalation will not occur. 

[SSScout]

Popcorn AND cookies....

 

[SSF]

On 4/23/2018 at 4:31 PM, FireStone said:

These were the first 4 comments I read, and if these are any indication of the genral quality and usefulness of comments, I think I'll skip the rest. 

I wouldn't regard the comment section of any news website as a good indicator of, well, pretty much anything, especially not what the general public thinks. 

So what would you regard as a good indicator?

Just skimmed the comments and the overwhelming majority are heavily opposed to girls in the boy scouts. Do you think that most Americans are 100% onboard with girls in the BSA? 

Maybe all those comments expressing opposition were written by imaginary people...yes, that must be it...the people opposed to girls in scouting are imaginary. They don't really exist and neither do their opinions. 

[skeptic]

Russian trolls are responsible.

[Hawkwin]

5 minutes ago, SSF said:

So what would you regard as a good indicator

Considering the fact that the vast majority of the comments are flippant, uninformed, and many others are little more than, "why  XXXX girl scouts", I would avoid trying to gauge anything based on such comments. If you want a good gauge, probably enrollment numbers in a year or two would be a better estimate.

 

 

10 minutes ago, SSF said:

Maybe all those comments expressing opposition were written by imaginary people...yes, that must be it...the people opposed to girls in scouting are imaginary.

I don't think anyone implied that those individuals don't exist, just that they likely are not representative of any greater sentiment.

I will note though that if you look at the comments in the aggregate, 77% are self-described as neutral and only 19% are negative. Pretty good result for a comments section if one wanted to try and extrapolate some larger point based on such.

[Eagle1993]

17 minutes ago, SSF said:

So what would you regard as a good indicator?

Just skimmed the comments and the overwhelming majority are heavily opposed to girls in the boy scouts. Do you think that most Americans are 100% onboard with girls in the BSA? 

Maybe all those comments expressing opposition were written by imaginary people...yes, that must be it...the people opposed to girls in scouting are imaginary. They don't really exist and neither do their opinions. 

Comments sections under articles bring out some of the worst in people and skew based upon the audience.   Go ahead and read deadspin.com articles and you would believe 99% of this country wants fully run National healthcare and that NFL players should be honored for kneeling.  Then go to Fox News and read comments under their article... a bit different.  The real question is what do parents and their youth in our target age range want and need to have fun and grow into strong leaders.   I don’t think a comment section under an article (regardless of position) represents an accurate answer to that question.   Polling of parents in the 30-50 year range over the next 5-10 years will be the best indication if the target audience is happy with the change.  IMHO

[CalicoPenn]

11 hours ago, sri_oa161 said:

If the name does change to Scouts, what happens to the Congressional Charter for Boy Scouts of America?

The corporate name will still remain The Boy Scouts of America, even if they don't call themselves that in public - so the congressional charter would remain as is.

[Buggie]

I know that when a pack opens up close enough for my currently 8 yr/o daughter, I'm going to take her and see if she's interested in it. She shows signs of interest in the camping etc, so I'm hopeful. And thankfully my job has changed to where I can actually take her camping! But I also recognize one thing. She has no interest in being seen as a "boy". So the idea of being in a scouting organization that was traditionally a boys institution might not sit well with her. 

Case in point. Last year she played softball for the first time. It's time for the first game. We help her get her uniform on (first time) and she's unhappy because it is a very traditional ball uniform. Even with the pink lettering on a navy blue background, the cut/style was traditional. Her comment on seeing herself in the mirror? Abject misery. "I Look Like a BOY!" Massive tears and wailing. 

Until she got out to the game that is. Once she saw the rest of her team dressed the same, it became a non-issue. 

[FireStone]

2 hours ago, SSF said:

So what would you regard as a good indicator?

Just skimmed the comments and the overwhelming majority are heavily opposed to girls in the boy scouts. Do you think that most Americans are 100% onboard with girls in the BSA? 

Maybe all those comments expressing opposition were written by imaginary people...yes, that must be it...the people opposed to girls in scouting are imaginary. They don't really exist and neither do their opinions. 

I didn't say they were imaginary. 

Comments sections of news websites are generally pretty toxic. Mostly negative, rarely a good measure of how people feel about anything. You could be reading a feel-good article about flowers and the comments will still find a way to go negative and talk about what jerks flowers are, sitting in a feeling looking all smug and colorful.  

I don't know what most Americans are on board with. And if anyone is estimating how most Americans feel about this based on the comments section of a news article, I would seriously question the usefulness of that kind of data. I don't know what a good indicator would even be. But it's not that. 

[cocomax]

So they have mixed boys with girls in the same den,  breaking the rules.

 

From the article:

In Durham, for example, den leader Tuck Pescosolido recently led a group of four girls and four boys as they built wooden toolboxes. As the project got underway, the girls raised their hands and waited to be called on, while the boys were somewhat silly, cracking jokes about flying airplanes when asked about drilling pilot holes. But once they settled into the activity, things leveled out.

"I didn't want to stereotype. But yes, I did expect perhaps the girls would be a little bit calmer, would be a little bit perhaps easier to manage in my role as the den leader, and to a certain extent that has played out," Pescosolido said. "But it's done so in a great way. It's not that the girls are sitting still. It's that they are very highly engaged in the task and they're less, perhaps, distracted by other things than the boys are."

------

 

And BSA sent me a newsletter just now with a link to the article, so BSA must be okay them breaking the rules and mixing boys and girls in the same den.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by cocomax

[Jameson76]

39 minutes ago, cocomax said:

So they have mixed boys with girls in the same den,  breaking the rules.

 

From the article:

In Durham, for example, den leader Tuck Pescosolido recently led a group of four girls and four boys as they built wooden toolboxes. As the project got underway, the girls raised their hands and waited to be called on, while the boys were somewhat silly, cracking jokes about flying airplanes when asked about drilling pilot holes. But once they settled into the activity, things leveled out.

"I didn't want to stereotype. But yes, I did expect perhaps the girls would be a little bit calmer, would be a little bit perhaps easier to manage in my role as the den leader, and to a certain extent that has played out," Pescosolido said. "But it's done so in a great way. It's not that the girls are sitting still. It's that they are very highly engaged in the task and they're less, perhaps, distracted by other things than the boys are."

------

 

And BSA sent me a newsletter just now with a link to the article, so BSA must be okay them breaking the rules and mixing boys and girls in the same den.

 

Wow - and they said it would not happen, they literally assured us it would not happen with letters form the key 3 and everything...

Oh...

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, cocomax said:

So they have mixed boys with girls in the same den,  breaking the rules.

Correction: it was a group of two dens, one of four boys the other of four girls, in strict compliance with the rules.

[cocomax]

From The Article:

Tatum Weir agreed. She had been to a few of her brother’s meetings — their dad is the assistant den leader — and was eager to join.

“I thought it would be pretty cool because I thought it would be a good opportunity to do with my brother,” she said. “There’s a lot of cool activities.”

Asked what he likes about Cub Scouts, Ian Weir ticked off a short list: going places, nature, and “Tatum’s in it.”

“I was a little skeptical because it was me and my dad’s thing, but when Tatum got in it was even more fun,” he said.

 

-------

 

Clearly Mr Weir is the assistant den leader and Mr Pescosolido is the den leader.  We have 2 men leading a pack of 8 kids,    4 boys and 4 girls.

This breaks YPT rules as well as the no mixed dens rule.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by cocomax

[Cambridgeskip]

2 hours ago, cocomax said:

From The Article:

Tatum Weir agreed. She had been to a few of her brother’s meetings — their dad is the assistant den leader — and was eager to join.

“I thought it would be pretty cool because I thought it would be a good opportunity to do with my brother,” she said. “There’s a lot of cool activities.”

Asked what he likes about Cub Scouts, Ian Weir ticked off a short list: going places, nature, and “Tatum’s in it.”

“I was a little skeptical because it was me and my dad’s thing, but when Tatum got in it was even more fun,” he said.

 

-------

 

Clearly Mr Weir is the assistant den leader and Mr Pescosolido is the den leader.  We have 2 men leading a pack of 8 kids,    4 boys and 4 girls.

This breaks YPT rules as well as the no mixed dens rule.

 

 

 

How do you know there wasn't a female assistant there as well who just isn't referred to in the article? 

[ianwilkins]

4 hours ago, cocomax said:

This breaks YPT rules as well as the no mixed dens rule.

[Pirate voice] It's more of what you would call a guideline than yer actual rule.