Penn State Disallows Student Run Outdoor Club

[walk in the woods]

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2018/04/18/Penn-state-university-ends-Outing-Club-trips/stories/201804180168?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

According to an announcement posted by the club on its website last week, the university will not allow the club to organize and run outdoor, student-led trips starting next semester.

“This is a result,” the announcement said, “of an assessment of risk management by the university that determined that the types of activities in which PSOC engages are above the university’s threshold of acceptable risk for recognized student organizations.”

[fred johnson]

Wow.  Just wow.  

[CalicoPenn]

I would really like to see the criteria they used in their risk assessment.  I would particularly be interested if they have statistics about how many students on the Outing, Caving and SCUBA clubs (these are the three clubs affected) were injured on outings with their clubs in the last 10 years and compare that to how many students were injured in the last 10 years playing football, basketball, and field hockey.

If Penn State is going to shut down clubs because of risk to students, then surely the riskiest activity for potential injuries is their football program which should be shut down immediately.

BTW - Penn State has a student Urban Gaming club that runs events where students chase each other all over campus shooting NERF guns at each other - and this isn't considered risky?  

[Chisos]

Unfortunately, modern "risk management" seems to have morphed into "risk elimination," which results in program elimination or banning of certain activities, given that for any event risk can't (by definition) be zero.

(As an aside, I was the safety officer of my University's Scuba Club back in the day.  We never, to my knowledge, had a serious diving-related injury.)

[NJCubScouter]

Tampa Turtle, can we please not have "jokes" on that subject?

[David CO]

2 hours ago, Chisos said:

Unfortunately, modern "risk management" seems to have morphed into "risk elimination," which results in program elimination or banning of certain activities, given that for any event risk can't (by definition) be zero.

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff.

This sounds similar to BSA banning units from organizing and supervising their own shooting activities. BSA requires that some activities be organized and supervised by the council staff.

So, I would argue that the university is not eliminating the activities. They are treating their college students like cub scouts.

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by David CO

[Chisos]

16 minutes ago, David CO said:

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff.

This sounds similar to BSA banning units from organizing and supervising their own shooting activities. BSA requires that some activities be organized and supervised by the council staff.

So, I would argue that the university is not eliminating the activities. They are treating their college students like cub scouts.

 

Yeah, I guess the comparison of college students being treated like cub scouts is pretty accurate.  It's sad that a University feels the need to treat adults as if they are elementary school students.

 

[fred johnson]

36 minutes ago, David CO said:

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff.

Sadly, this makes sense.  Certain activities do have risk and need to be taken seriously by skilled people.  PSU is paying for the insurance coverage.  That coverage probably states that activities that can have risk will have skilled supervision.  The only way PSU could satisfy that requirement is to have staff cover it.  It's not any safer really, just a perception of safety.

[DuctTape]

By providing the supervision and oversight it will undoubtebly increase their exposure. A student club whose only tie to the university is that they allow them to hang up flyers and sign out rooms creates less exposure. 

[CalicoPenn]

Boy Scout Troops often lead outings to remote areas with poor cell phone coverage with adult leaders that have less experience as the student leaders of the Penn State Outing club - keep that in mind the next time you want to complain about the BSA's risk management folks .

[Gwaihir]

On 4/23/2018 at 11:54 AM, David CO said:

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff.

This sounds similar to BSA banning units from organizing and supervising their own shooting activities. BSA requires that some activities be organized and supervised by the council staff.

So, I would argue that the university is not eliminating the activities. They are treating their college students like cub scouts.

 

they're treating legal adults like cub scouts. 

fixed it for you. 

On 4/23/2018 at 2:15 PM, CalicoPenn said:

Boy Scout Troops often lead outings to remote areas with poor cell phone coverage with adult leaders that have less experience as the student leaders of the Penn State Outing club - keep that in mind the next time you want to complain about the BSA's risk management folks .

I'm sure someone at National is reading the same Penn State article and saying "see, we should be doing this too" 

 

give it time, we'll get there. 

[qwazse]

I'm calling dibs  ...

But, I was looking to generate some scouting-relevant discussion.

This being I&P, TT's "joke" is not far off even though it smarts. Every adult leader in PA is bearing the brunt of the assault trial(s). I have no doubt this and #MeToo plays into the liability calculation.

Edited April 24, 2018 by qwazse