Would you say anything

[Gwaihir]

On 4/22/2018 at 6:27 PM, David CO said:

Your son is being picked on by an adult. I would drop all of the other issues and focus on that.

I have some choice words to describe my view of this CM, but a scout is kind, so I'll refrain. 

[Gwaihir]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:55 PM, NJCubScouter said:

Downtime is important too.

At the Cub level, I continually reiterate this notion.  Unstructured play is every bit as important as planned events.  

[TMSM]

As an SM I appreciate when informed of this kind of parental interference. I would find it tough to call out the CB directly on this if more than a few hours so I would make a general staement for parents to keep hands in pockets (HIP) and don't interfere with any petrol, dont offer any solutions and dont fill leadership vacuums. 

The CM may have the idea that leaders (PLs) eat last and stay in the eating area until all duties are complete and also help those who are struggling to get done. Even so its not his role to enforce his philosophy on a Patrol or even offer this up.

[WisconsinMomma]

Hi @bearess  I am totally late to this thread.  How is it going for your son now?   Have you talked with the Scoutmaster?  It sounds to me like the adult CM was almost bullying your 10 year old son, which is unacceptable. 

I hope it is going better.  Hang in there!!  Best wishes to you and your son.  

[bearess]

Thanks for checking in!  It’s going pretty well— they had another campout, CM (who is now an ASM) was there...he apparently didn’t say much to my son but was kind of on another boy in their patrol.  Other boy forgot his flashlight and coat and ASM was yelling at him (in my son’s words “ASM was WAY triggered”).  My son took the other boy aside, told him to come to son first next time, and they’d solve it as a patrol.  It’s so funny, the ASM is a huge advocate for things being boy led, patrol method, and so on.  But in practice, he can’t do it at all.  His son always tents with him, eats with him, hangs out with him.  He can’t or won’t give the boys space to make their own mistakes.  

[bearess]

Sigh.  So son went to camp last week.  He had a great time, loved it.  But, the first day, I guess there was confusion about who was supposed to be carrying the flag.  Son was carrying it, he went to hand it to someone else and dropped it.  Oops.  Son was embarrassed, all the boys acted quickly to pick it up, everyone clearly understood it was a mistake.  Well, ASM/former Cubmaster was there and apparently screamed at my son in front of everyone until he cried.  Another ASM and the SM were there, they took son aside, calmed him down.  The other ASM called me about it once they got home.  Apparently they had a meeting last night (COR, SM, both ASMs) to speak to ASM about how he talks to the boys (yelling/humiliating).  I hope this will resolve it, but I’m doubtful it will.  Sigh.  I don’t know what to do from here.

[wdfa89]

I wouldn't be very patient on this.  I would speak directly w/ the SM and/or CC, possibly the CO rep if the CO is involved in the Troop (some are/some aren't).  The yelling and screaming (coupled w/prior behavior) has no place and this "asm" no longer needs to have a role or presence at Troop activities IMO (again assuming the facts as presented in the thread are 100% correct and no reason to think otherwise).

I would ensure I was present at any activity where my son and this guy were present.  I would strongly consider changing units if the Troop isn't going to remove this person.

That is my official how to handle it scoutlike.  Honestly, if it were my kid, this ASM and I would have a talk and that would be the last tiime he gets w/ 100 yards of my son let alone speak with him again.

[mashmaster]

15 minutes ago, bearess said:

Sigh.  So son went to camp last week.  He had a great time, loved it.  But, the first day, I guess there was confusion about who was supposed to be carrying the flag.  Son was carrying it, he went to hand it to someone else and dropped it.  Oops.  Son was embarrassed, all the boys acted quickly to pick it up, everyone clearly understood it was a mistake.  Well, ASM/former Cubmaster was there and apparently screamed at my son in front of everyone until he cried.  Another ASM and the SM were there, they took son aside, calmed him down.  The other ASM called me about it once they got home.  Apparently they had a meeting last night (COR, SM, both ASMs) to speak to ASM about how he talks to the boys (yelling/humiliating).  I hope this will resolve it, but I’m doubtful it will.  Sigh.  I don’t know what to do from here.

That behaviour is ridiculous from the adult.  Personally, we had a similar experience from and ASM.  I asked him to step down as ASM because that behaviour is never ok in my book.  We are there to build the boys up not tear them down.

[bearess]

7 minutes ago, wdfa89 said:

I wouldn't be very patient on this.  I would speak directly w/ the SM and/or CC, possibly the CO rep if the CO is involved in the Troop (some are/some aren't).  The yelling and screaming (coupled w/prior behavior) has no place and this "asm" no longer needs to have a role or presence at Troop activities IMO (again assuming the facts as presented in the thread are 100% correct and no reason to think otherwise).

I would ensure I was present at any activity where my son and this guy were present.  I would strongly consider changing units if the Troop isn't going to remove this person.

That is my official how to handle it scoutlike.  Honestly, if it were my kid, this ASM and I would have a talk and that would be the last tiime he gets w/ 100 yards of my son let alone speak with him again.

I think all of that is the right thing to do/say— but it’s challenging.  The guy has a son my son’s age, also in the Troop.  So removing him as an ASM wouldn’t necessarily achieve the goal of removing him from Scouts—he’d still come to everything with his son.  Me going to everything isn’t possible- I don’t have the vacation time to go to camp and a weeklong summer trip (which they do every year).  I’m a Den Leader for my younger son, and those meetings overlap with the Troop meetings.

Here’s the trouble— my son likes Scouts and likes his Troop.  Any other Troop would be 15-20 minute drive, different school district, etc.  Removing him from the Troop seems like such a bad option— but letting him stay is no good either!  I do appreciate that the rest of the leadership talked to him, and I think the message was “If it happens again, you will have to leave”- but I do think they are limited in what they can do, as his son is a Scout.

 

[scoutldr]

His treatment of the youth is clearly bullying. A clear Youth Protection violation.  Report it as such.  go directly to the Scout Executive...do not deal with the troop leadership any longer, since they are clearly incapable/unwilling to handle it.  This man obviously has anger issues and needs to be removed from Scouting...permanently.  

 

 

[Eagledad]

Peer pressure can have amazing results. What works well is a supportive culture and it sounds like your troop has one. At summer camp I had an adult meeting Wednesday night to remind everyone that stress seems to peak in the middle of the week and to guard ourselves from over reacting. I was speaking from experience.

Everyone needs a change to prove they learned from bad choices.

Barry

[WisconsinMomma]

Ugh, I am so sorry Bearess.  

Your son does not need to leave.  This adult needs to step down.   Screaming at a boy until they cry is not appropriate.

I think you should call the Scout Executive and have a conversation, so this is documented very specifically.  Get it on the record.  Then the Council can decide whether their volunteer deserves another chance to humiliate and bully children or not.

The kids need to see consequences for bad behavior.   

[JoeBob]

43 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

The kids need to see consequences for bad behavior. 

Plus one hundred!

This ain't the type of adult behavior that you want your son to model.

[wdfa89]

1 hour ago, bearess said:

I think all of that is the right thing to do/say— but it’s challenging.  The guy has a son my son’s age, also in the Troop.  So removing him as an ASM wouldn’t necessarily achieve the goal of removing him from Scouts—he’d still come to everything with his son.  Me going to everything isn’t possible- I don’t have the vacation time to go to camp and a weeklong summer trip (which they do every year).  I’m a Den Leader for my younger son, and those meetings overlap with the Troop meetings.

Here’s the trouble— my son likes Scouts and likes his Troop.  Any other Troop would be 15-20 minute drive, different school district, etc.  Removing him from the Troop seems like such a bad option— but letting him stay is no good either!  I do appreciate that the rest of the leadership talked to him, and I think the message was “If it happens again, you will have to leave”- but I do think they are limited in what they can do, as his son is a Scout.

 

I wasn't clear--he doesn't have to leave the troop, as you said his kid is in there, but he does need to leave his position.   He needn't have any interaction with any boy other than his son.   He needn't wear a uni again IMO.  But as hard as it would be, if he pulls this again and the Troop doesn't follow thru (and quite frankly, he shouldn't be in a position to do this again so I think you have a problem already)  and you can't be there all the time to protect your kid (I get it--I have a job and 2 other kids and my own life) then you have to consider all of your options if the troop has made their choice.

[wdfa89]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

 

Everyone needs a chance to prove they learned from bad choices.

 

not necessarily.  depends on the bad choice.  and you don't get to learn on my kid.  I really don't feel the need to provide another opportunity for someone to screw up with my kid.   and I really don't want that to happen to others either

Edited August 1, 2018 by wdfa89
original was too snarky