Article from Backpacker Magazine "The Trouble With Girls in Boy Scouts"

[Gwaihir]

8 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

What specific changes do you think would be necessary for girls?  

The changes aren't about the program, they're about the fact girls and boys are different, have different needs, wants, development rates and thought processes.  An agile leader will take the content and tailor it to meet the human element for a girl and a boy differently based on those needs.  

[Tampa Turtle]

23 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

So far I have had to make minimal changes.  One is to modify gender language on the fly.  So in some cases an adventure would have me read something about “boys” and I would insert “girls” or “scouts”.  The other is to be prepared with more adventure content.  That could be due to the smaller den size or that the girls are a bit more focused at this age.  

The other area I have watched for is interactions between boys and girls.  That will be a new dynamic but again shouldn’t require a change to the program.

For the life of me I have no idea what else would have to change.  I would be interested in specifics on what modification would be sought for girls.

I meant that local units try all sorts of crazy things and by the law of averages there will be a misguided few that may try to soften the path for girls, we see it often by well meaning parents for boys. But no means necessary or inevitable (I think).

[RememberSchiff]

I preach, give each child what she or he most needs by the method most appropriate for that child. 

[NJCubScouter]

26 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

An agile leader will take the content and tailor it to meet the human element for a girl and a boy differently based on those needs. 

Can you give an example or two of how the content might be tailored?

[cocomax]

A girl lead boy scout program will work fine.

A boy lead boy scout program works fine.

They can use the same content and there is room in the program for them to do what they are interested in.

When girl scouts started it was a mirror of the boy scout program and it worked fine.

 

[Eagle1993]

47 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Can you give an example or two of how the content might be tailored?

One example I can see is if, in general, a group of girls may pick up one part of an adventure or MB more quickly but struggle with another part you may need to think of different techniques.

 I wouldn’t recommend changing requirements but I do agree as leaders we may see a broader set of learning styles going forward.  I emphasize “in general” as I’m sure it is not 100% correlated with gender.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

 I wouldn’t recommend changing requirements but I do agree as leaders we may see a broader set of learning styles going forward.  I emphasize “in general” as I’m sure it is not 100% correlated with gender.

Well, that's sort of where I am going with this, and I do not think the "gender correlation" is anywhere near 100% - or more to the point, is not likely to be anywhere near 100% with the girls who are going to join the Cub Scouts or the Whatever (11-17) Scouts.  Boys (and girls) are already pretty different just within their own genders.  Some are much more athletic than others (and everything in between.)  Same thing with their enthusiasm for different parts of the program.  (I have seen boys who actually liked the Eagle-required "homework-badges", and liked camping and hiking and backpacking a little less - and vice versa, of course.  I will never forget the kid who, at age 15 or so, brought the book "C++ for Dummies" on a camping trip, which I thought was hilarious.)  Same thing with their interest in being leaders. (My son was never interested in being THE leader, either as PL or SPL.  He was an APL and then his POR's were Den Chief and then Instructor.  But there were times he was thrust into being the acting PL or ASPL, and 2 or 3 times, acting SPL, and in my unbiased opinion (ha ha) he did a great job.  I thought he was a "natural" leader - he just wasn't that interested in leading.)  Same thing with every other part of being a Scout.  Girls have the same differences among themselves, although one might speculate that the "average" girl who decides to join the BSA might be more enthusiastic about the more strenuous outdoor activities, and might in general be a little "bolder" (perhaps even "tougher") than the "average" girl in general.  Even if one accepts that the "average boy" is different from the "average girl" (and I do), I think that if everybody calms down and just sees what happens, the transition will be smoother - and the pressure to "adjust" or "modify" the "program" will be less - than a lot of people here expect. 

[CalicoPenn]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 7:36 AM, Gwaihir said:

I have been told repeatedly by scouters in favor of this new change, both online and in person, that boys and girls are the same and the program doesn't need to change to meet the needs of girls or boys, because those needs are the same. 

The idea behind this isn't to change the program to meet the needs of girls - the idea behind this is to open the program to girls who want to experience the program the BSA has as it already is.  If we gain 100K girls without "changing the program to meet the needs of girls", aren't we, in fact, actually meeting the needs of 100K girls that the GS were not meeting the needs of?

I consider those arguments from the Girl Scouts spokesperson to be specious at  best.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by CalicoPenn

[carebear3895]

On 4/17/2018 at 12:59 PM, swilliams said:

Girl Scouts leaders are not confident the Boy Scouts will be able to offer adequate programming for girls. 

This GSUSA argument really drives me up the wall. First of all, Girl Scouts has a serious program issue of their own that they turn a blind eye to, which is why their program is failing. The whole "we know what girls want because we are girls" is so stupid, and is setting them on a path for continued failure.

Second of all, no body is forcing girls to "convert" or join Cubs Scouts. If a girl chooses BSA over GSUSA on her own will, I think that should highlight everything. Venturing has been around for 20 years, which actually is co-ed. Heck, even 2 of the 5 national youth officers are females!  "Adequate programming"....give me a break.

[Gwaihir]

On 4/22/2018 at 6:45 PM, CalicoPenn said:

 

I consider those arguments from the Girl Scouts spokesperson to be specious at  best.

 

that's just you mansplaining to a woman.  

[Tampa Turtle]

4 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

that's just you mansplaining to a woman.  

Yeah! Next you are going to tell me their are just two genders. #Mansplainer_outrage