Sheath knives

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

I have to say the trend of this thread is very refreshing. Usually the topic of sheath knives takes off in the direction of "no way, not in my troop".

 

The only problem with sheath knives is they are caught up in a politically correct world where the BSA is as concerned about outward appearances as they are number of Eagles. It's about marketing. That being said, I believe the best marketing for Boy Scouting is a successful story of using a learned skill to express character. True, one isn't usually associated with the other anymore, but at one time it was understood that without the development of skills, there was no practice of character. Scouting is the adult world scaled down to a boys size and the Troop is a safe place where boys learn the habits of character by practicing the actions of it. You just can simply talk character into someone.

 

It has always been interesting to me that using a bow saw is of little concern in these discussions, yet it accounts for more injuries than axes, knives and hatchets combined. Many adults don't even realize that there are very few limits on scouts using power tools. The sheath knife has an image problem.

 

I'm for taking the approach of teaching safety by active use of the tool, not by fear of hiding it. Knowledge is a wonder thing in theory, but practice of that knowledge builds practical sense and quenches the thirst of curiosity.

 

I'm not sure how a scout attacking an adult with and axe brings anything to this subject, but it is an interesting story. How did you work with that scout?

 

Have a great scouting week.

 

Barry

 

[kenk]

This thread got me thinking about a particular knife I once saw, but I can't recall who made it. I think it was called a "camp knife". It was a longer blade fixed knife, but it had a rounded tip, much like that of a bread knife. I'm pretty sure the tip wasn't sharp. The idea was that as a general purpose food preparation knife, it would do better scooping out and spreading stuff such as peanut butter, mayonaise, butter, etc...

 

Does anyone remember that knife or know if it, or similar, is still around?

[KA6BSA]

You might be thinking of one sold by LL Bean, but I thought it was a folding single-bladed knife. It did have a blunt rounded tip just right for peanut butter. I haven't seen it in their catalog the last couple of years... maybe a little too exotic for people used to plastic throw-away utinsils but I am sure it was nicely made.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

[Bob White]

Other than creating some work for someone to make a new card for the scout when he retests for totin' chip, what was gained by tearing the card up in front of him and getting him worked up enough to brandish an ax in anger?

[Fuzzy Bear]

This thread was run through the mill a couple of months ago. It is like an echo of Christmas past. I fear that it is boredom reaching out to give us a helping hand in life.

 

I feel myself wishing for a new feature as I cast my eye upon the Wishing Star. This one would connect the data base to key words which would automatically read out at the bottom of the box as a person writes. Key words could be highlighted, such as, Sheath Knife. Page numbers would appear at the bottom of the box. All a person would need to do is double click any page selection and the old thread would pop up.

 

For Scouters that like to write a book by the cut and paste method, all of the information would be right there to be printed out after carefully editing the excess vital juices from it.

 

For Scouters that are looking for a fight, the old thread would bring it all back like a flood of pent up emotions. Scouter's from the past could be drug back into old issues and the issues could be expanded as new thoughts arise in the mind of the present opponent. Fights could be won and lost without the offending party even knowing what the other had done. An occasional message could be sent to the losing party to inform them of their action just to keep things lively.

 

How about a data base where nobody even has to enter into the fray at all? A person just highlights the key words and the whole thread is put back into action as if it had been done just that day. It would quicken the whole process and we could read and reread at our leisure without writing anymore than the initial key words.

 

A person could spend time writing for past columns and never enter into a current thread. We could also input all of the Scouting literature and use the database to retrieve answers without any input from anybody. Problems would be solved much quicker and it would take the weight of personal conflict from the equation.

 

Possibly the Scout Office in Irving could be convinced to connect to the database through a help desk and all of the extra chatter could be eliminated entirely by getting the Word from the Mountain top.

 

Just a few thoughts before bedtime,

 

FB

 

[eagle54]

Sheath knives axes are not found as much as part of Scout Troops.

 

To me the important part is to instruct and follow up on safe use of bow says, axes, and knives.

 

And also practice makes perfect.

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

While I may not think it is a good idea to carry a sheath knife at all times, this is because I believe it is not usually the best tool for the job. However, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with carrying a sheath knife. I might comment that those folding multi-tools with pliers are often far more of a tool than is needed for common camp tasks, such as cutting a piece of twine or string. Yet no one seems to care if someone has one of those.

 

Sheath knives work just as well as a knife as any other knife. At times they are even better. The only down side is there is a slightly increased risk to the person carrying it. However, using proper sheaths and carrying the knife in a good location largely mitigates that concern.

 

Now if these boys don't know how to properly use a large sheath knife, or if they are breaking any laws by carrying them, or if they are carrying them for some mischievous reason such as intimidating others, then that is not acceptable. If they simply prefer a sheath knife to a folding knife, I would simply make certain they understand the benefits and drawbacks of both.

 

Oh, and while some have ridiculed the idea of self defense a legitimate reason for carrying a knife, I would suggest there are some occasions where this may be the prudent thing to do. For example, if hiking in the back country in a small group in an area that contains a significant population of dangerous animals, it wouldn't be the worst idea to have a plan C in case plan A (avoiding close contact) and plan B (scarring the animal away) both fail. I don't mean to suggest every Philmont group should carry an allotment of machetes, but there are times that dangerous animals are a significant enough risk to warrant taking precautions (though simply choosing another destination might also be a good way to mitigate the risk, that isn't always a viable option).

 

As to taking away someone's card, I would say there are certainly times that is justified. If this Scout was doing something that was grossly unsafe, then they have demonstrated that they are not willing to abide by the safety rules they have already been taught. Such a blatant disregard for their own safety and the safety of others cannot be tolerated.

 

Finally, I would hope most troops have access to sheath knives and axes. Both of these (but most particularly axes) are quite necessary to teach the proper and safe use of the full range of woods tools. If a Scout can't handle a sheath knife or an axe, I don't think I would feel too comfortable signing a Totin Chip card for them, that is for sure.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For protecting oneself from the "wilds", such as Bears, consider running shoes over a sheath knife for self-defense. You may stand a chance of surriving.

 

Fuzzy Bear (*no direct relation to the real thing)

 

[AK-Eagle]

Just a quick note,

 

Running away is the last thing you want to do with a bear stand your ground fight if it is a black bear or curl into a ball and wait it out if it is a grizzly.

In some areas of Canada you are required by law to carry a high power rifle for bear protection.

So far this spring here in southeast Alaska we've had two bear attacks on people one was a wounded brown (grizzly) bear going after the hunting guide. The guide was seriously injured. The other was a black bear going into a occupied tent the camper was chased out of the tent's new back door around a tree a few times when cornered he punched the bear! then used a compressed air horn to alert (wake up) the other campers that noise managed to scare the bear off the camper suffered only minor injuries.

 

Becareful out there.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

[le Voyageur]

Whenever I'm in bear country, I prefer to travel with someone who runs slower then me....

 

However, back on topic...I agree with RobK and others who advocate teaching using the right tool for the job.

 

Tend to think we should include in the mix an introduction on how to use draw kives, adzs, froes, axes, and wedges, sort of a 101 course on Backwoods Handtools

[Fuzzy Bear]

One camper had a candy bar in his hip pocket while curled up. The next thing he knew, the bear was eating the candy bar and part of his butt. He could no longer run and he didn't have a sheath knife or a high powered rifle, because he wasn't in Canada and he was a Scout.

 

The Bear left supposedly because he had enough dessert for one night and, of course, to a chorus of screams. I think the moral has something to do with a low carb diet. Sometimes there is just no winning or finishing or just sitting safely in the bleachers.

 

Sorry, I return you back to the main topic.

FB

 

[red feather]

After rereading one of my earlier posts on this thread I wish to correct something

 

A knife in the hands of one who does know how to handle them and care for them is much more dangerous than the knife in the hands of one who does. For themseleves and others.

 

is what I posted.

 

 

What I meant was: A knife in the hands of one who does NOT know how to handle them....

 

Sorry for the ommision.

 

yis

[EarthMan]

Will some of the opponents of sheath knives please explain why they are considered less safe than folding knives? Because sheath knives seem much safer too me.

 

A good sheath knife is made of one solid piece of steel going the full length of the handle, so it is much sturdier for doing real work and less likely to break. It doesn't have to fit inside a handle so the steel can be thicker. It is simpler because it has no moving parts. It won't fold up on you accidently when using it or sharpening it. There is no potential for injury when closing it. Some locking knives have a complicated unlocking mechanism which require partially closing the knife with your fingers in the direct path of the blade. It is easier to clean sheath knives since there are no small crevices to collect food.

 

I understand that sheath knives might present a PR problem because of political correctness when worn in public, but simply explain that to the scouts and don't wear them in public. I also understand that scouts might get in a size competition, but simply have a policy that limits the blade size to five inches.

 

I would rather use a sheath knife than a folding knife for practically any task. It's quick and convenient to have it readily accessible on the belt. A sheath knife should always be in its sheath when not being used just like a folding knife should be folded so I don't understand how a folding knife is any better in that respect.

 

I'm a new scoutmaster and I would like to convince our troop to change its policy against sheath knives unless there are good reasons for the ban. So far I haven't heard any convincing reasons for banning them. But there must be good reasons since bans are so common. What are the good reasons for banning them?

 

By the way, it is the nature of the Internet that the same issues keep re-appearing in discussion groups. That is why FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) were invented. An FAQ should have answers for those issues that keep recurring. If an issue is controversial, then the different viewpoints should be fairly presented in the FAQ. The members of discussion groups should largely agree that the FAQ fairly covers the essential points of recurring issues. Then, whenever any questions come up that are covered in the FAQ, simply direct people to the FAQ.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Will some of the opponents of sheath knives please explain why they are considered less safe than folding knives? Because sheath knives seem much safer too me."

 

In use they are as safe or safer than folding knives. I believe that the concerns are for when they aren't being used and you have Scouts running around with big knives strapped to their belts. Or so they say.

 

 

[Bob White]

Although I am no an opponent to sheath knives earthman I do understand the preference for pocket knives.

 

As you point out, good sheath knives are well made with durable protective sheaths, but most boys do not carry "good" quality sheath knives. In addition it is a matter of the right tool for the right job. Sheath knives are for the most part, hunting knives, and since packs and troops do not hunt it is an excessive tool for the purposes they would use it.

 

A standard size pocket knife is lighter weight, more compact, and multi purpose, making it a more prefered camp tool for scouting.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)