Sheath knives

[CaveEagle]

We have a few boys that insist on bringing (and wearing) Hunting / Survival style sheath knives to out Troop activities. I have always understood this to be against BSA policy. I have expressed my concerns to the boys parents with no results. Before I Make a federal case about this I wanted to make sure I am correct. Is this a BSA Policy?(if so where can I find it?) or a Local / Council decision.

[le Voyageur]

Get a copy of Guide to Safe Scouting from your council....however, BSA dose not expressly bans sheath knives, but suggest they not be used.

 

However, for myself, large sheath knives, bowies, machetes, etc are the signs of the greenhorn...

[KA6BSA]

Yes there is a directive in the Guide to Safe Scouting and you can find the latest version of it online with an easy search. But what exactally are the boys planning to use these big knives for? Most troops will allow a long knife to be used with a purpose in mind... such as a fillet knife to be used for cleaning fish, and we all use a sharp straight knife to cut up food preparing dinner. But the boys wearing these big "pig sticker" knives has only the purpose of creating a testosterone-charged sense of bravado and intimidation. In addition to the G2SS rule you need to explain that in our current society that sees all knives as weapons not as tools, this is not acceptable behavior. With all those Bowie knives your troop is a very scarry sight to the average citizen! The boys already know what they are getting away with; they know the rules at school and what happens if they are caught with even a tiny knife to clean fingernails. Also many states have laws specific to wearing straight bladed knives. If you ask the boys what purpose the knives have you will likely get a fantasy explanation about how they are ready to protect themselves (with a weapon) from a wild animal if it attacks them on a hike, not for cleaning a fish! Despite "Be Prepared" these macho attitudes (supported as you say by their fathers) are not consistent with the goals of Scouting. Even if they don't care about the G2SS or any state laws they have broken, as Scoutmaster you have a good case for holding back the boys advancement for the reason of lacking in Scout Spirit or Scout Law.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

[Fat Old Guy]

Ah, the knife. At one time, nearly every man and most women carried a knife for utility purposes. Now, if you have a knife, you are a terrorist in waiting.

 

If I could get away with it, I'd encourage every Scout to wear the biggest knife that he could carry. No silly fantasy knives, just good old single edged, clip pointed knives. Why? The more that they carry a knife, the less likely they are to do something stupid with it.

 

When I was young, I carried a knife 365 days a year (366 during leap year). It was part of my accoutrements just like my belt, wallet or watch. As it is now, Scouts carry their knives about two days out of most months. It remains a novelty to them so they are more likely to fiddle with it. Look at anyone from 7 to 70, if they have a new watch, cell phone or pda, they are going to fiddle with it. The same is true for pocket knives.

 

 

[red feather]

I carry a buck pocketknife on a daily basis, stopping only when I have to fly somewhere. Other knives that I have have specific purposes and are used or carried then.

 

Knife safety, handling and sharpening is fast becoming a lost ability and that is sad. I find that scouts that are not exposed to sharp edges are the ones most likely to cut themselves and then learn that a dull knife cuts worse than a sharp one.

 

Sheath knifes do have uses but they are limited. But then again I still carry my militry sheath knife on overnights, not on a belt but in a 'possibles case'.

 

Most scouts have no use for such knifes and for the most part eventually quit carrying them, at least in my experience.

 

yis

[kenk]

My council leaders have made it very clear that fixed blade knives are to welcome at Scouting activiites and anyone who uses them are, well, misguided.

 

For hiking and general outdoor use, a folding knife does just fine, and is easier to carry than a fixed blade knife.

 

BUT when it comes to food preparation, I still much prefer a medium sized fixed blade knife with a clip point blade (rather than a spear point) and a non-porous handle. I hate trying to clean meat juices, peanut butter, or even veggie guts from the knooks and crannies of my folding knife!!

 

The blade must be just long enough to reach to the bottom of my peanut butter jar.

 

I recently purchased a Buck Alpha Hunter - a rather largish folding knife for most scout uses. The thing I really liked about it, amoung others, is that it has an open blade chamber, which makes it much easier to clean that most other folding knives.

 

I do wish Scouting (my council) was more open to use of the proper knife for the situation.

[le Voyageur]

 

Quite a few years back I was given a huge sheath knife for an xmas gift....never used it, and it's stored either up in the attic or down in the celler. Should I come across this thing I'll send it to FOG gratis as I've no use for it. I doubt the thing could even spread peanut butter...

 

[scouting-nerd]

In my troop and council we have the policy of not allowing scouts to carry sheath knives. However, like it was previously stated we recognize the need for larger knives for cooking uses and so does our council.

[RobK]

What's the harm? And I mean literally, what is the actual harm? Show them the proper tool for the job. It won't take too many instances of that big meat cleaver being a hindrance instead of a help for them to get the picture. Be quick to punish misuse, and otherwise let it go. They'll mature. Just help them learn the principle of 'the right tool for the job'. I remember being that age and wanting one of those big pig stickers. For a year or so, I carried four or five pocket knives with me everywhere because I could. I grew out of it. They will too.

 

I think too many Scouters have lost sight of the fact that Scouting is a game. These boys aren't there to take a management trainging course. They're there to fantasy role play -- to be the big adventurer, soldier, and hero! B-P used that desire, which is so natural in boys, as the honey to draw them in and while they're not looking teach them to be fine men. Just look at the opportunity for them to have those big knives as the honey. In fact, you might contrive some situtations where those knives would be detrimental. Give them reasons other than "them's the rules" to not carry the big knives.

 

[Twocubdad]

On the other hand...

 

A couple months back the troop held a yard sale. There was a box full of kitchen knives that had been donated -- the thin serated blades with cheap handles, Ginzu or whatever. Just having crossed over with #1 son, I asked one of the ASMs if instead of selling the knives, wouldn't we bet better off keeping them for the patrol mess boxes. "Heavens no! We can have fixed-bladed knives, someone will get killed!" But don't we teach kids how to use knives, I asked? "Not knives like that, they're too dangerous."

 

Frankly, I thought it was a pretty stupid attitude. In their daily life a person is much more likely to use a kitchen knife to prepare a meal than a pocket knife to whittle a stick or perform some chore. What do most of you do more often with a knife, carve a kneckerchief slide of make a sandwich? I'm fairly picky about my kitchen knives. I have a commercial-quality set that I keep very sharp. Not only do my sons know how to use the different knives, but they know the difference between a paring knife, a carving knife and a chef's knife (for some reason, this same knowledge has evaded Mrs. Twocubdad.)

 

I see no reason for Scouts not to learn these same skills. I agree it's silly for a four-foot-tall kid to be dragging around a 12-inch Bowie knife that hangs below his knees, but there's no reason he can't use a similarly-sized chef's knife from the mess box to make dinner.

 

By the way, I bought the whole box of knives from the yard sale for $3.00 and donated them to the Cub Scout Pack's camp kitchen.

[dsteele]

When talking about fixed blade knives, I don't think they're talking about cooking knives. I think it refers to sheathed knives hanging about the belt.

 

If not, why would the official BSA chef's kits include long bladed knives? You aren't going to filet a fish or cut a chicken with a pocket knife. at least not very well.

 

Unc.

[red feather]

A little tongue in cheek.. but not much.

 

We need to teach scouts to use the knifes, not fight with them.

 

A knife in the hands of one who does know how to handle them and care for them is much more dangerous than the knife in the hands of one who does. For themseleves and others.

 

yis

[Fat Old Guy]

" These boys aren't there to take a management trainging course. They're there to fantasy role play -- to be the big adventurer,"

 

Don't you know that parent now put their sons into Scouting so they can earn Eagle by 14 and have it on their resume before they turn to high school sports, girls and other activities.

[Fuzzy Bear]

'A knife should not be any longer than one that will reach the bottom of my peanut butter jar.'

 

A few years ago as the SPL, I admonished another Scout in our camp for being unsafe with his hand axe. I asked for his Tot'en Chip and tore it up right in front of him to show my contempt for his behavior which I found both unacceptable and unsafe. I then turned on my heal and walked away feeling that i had taught him a lesson he would not forget.

 

I heard some scuffling behind me but I was too full of righteous indignation to pay heed.

 

What I didn't know was that an observant ASM had watched the whole story unfold from behind a tree not more than 10 feet away. What I later found out was that the incensed young man had picked up his hand axe and began running at me from behind with full intention of bringing it to rest in the bottom of my peanut jar head.

 

The ASM acted quickly by grabbing the lad and taking the axe away from him as an added measure of safety. I was later told the rest of the story.

 

The moral here is that dangerous things need to be tempered by patience and kindness from all involved. Proper supervision, safety lessons, guided experiences and yes, independent use of these items can lead a person into making good decisions about the correct choice and use of the needed camp tools. Throwing out baby and bath water means that we have failed to take into account some important lessons of life.

 

Since this is open ended, I fully expect someone to interpret this to mean that I support wearing machetes on the belt hooks of all Scouts. That is not what I mean so forget it! I was just trying to tell a story. I don't pretend to know the answers.

 

FB

[dan]

Welcome back Fuzzy Bear, I have missed your stories!