How Many ASMs per Troop

[Chisos]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:21 PM, Scoutmaster Teddy said:

I get grief from parents also. Their "beef" comes from canceling and rescheduling campouts because I have 7 ASMs for 18 Scouts and I'm often the only adult who registers. I end up begging for their help or reaching out to retired Scoutmasters and current committee members. I need ASMs who can camp. I understand people are busy, but some of them resist anything after 5 pm Friday.

That's crazy.  If they're not willing to camp then they shouldn't be registered as ASM's.  If they want a registered position they need to be troop committee or  unit scouter reserve.  I get it that folks have other commitments too, and life happens, but they ought to look at the annual calendar and each commit to at least a few campouts.

[an_old_DC]

9 minutes ago, TMSM said:

I am not sure why someone would want to be an ASM but not want to camp. ASMs should assist the needs of the SM and you outdoor chair should be making sure you have enough adults on each campout.

Been there, done that. It’s their ego. They want to stand around in the back of the room in an ASM shirt and tell everybody “I am one of the troop's Scoutmasters.” In reality, they do nothing.

As SM, I held a beginning of the year planning meeting for ASMs. As part of that meeting, I brought a calendar of campouts for that school year, and told them my expectation is all ASMs camp sometimes...and any ASM who does not camp a minimum of once per school year would be moved to committee member on the next charter. A couple stepped up and began to camp, a few became committee members and a few quit.

[Eagle94-A1]

With the exception on 18-20 year old ASMs, who can only register as ASM or Unit Scouter Reserve, they need to camp. We have a troop locally that has 2 adults with health issues, and they go on camp outs. They may stay in a camper, but they are there.

[blw2]

6 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

, and told them my expectation is all ASMs camp sometimes...and any ASM who does not camp a minimum of once per school year would be moved to committee member on the next charter.

In my opinion, a person that only camps once or even twice per year should be a committee member....& not necessarily that committee folks should camp routinely.  More that they can and should on rare occasion, in their capacity of "observe and advise".  As I mentioned before, a troop really shouldn't need that many ASM's, so what would be the point?  My gut tells me that a good ratio would be maybe half of the trips.....

[scotteg83]

Our unit has maybe 5 ASMs on paper, with 33 scouts.  However, I am the only truly active ASM.  In the last year, I have been on more camp-outs and troops meets then the others, and because of the SM's new job, I have been to more meetings then he has.  So in a true active roll, we only have myself and the SM.  The other 4, 1 never seem to come, but his youngest son his aging out, and he was the SM with his older son years ago. 1 is a new crossover Dad that wants to start helping, but hasn't done more then the app and YPT.  The other 2 come maybe 50% of the time.

 

Our Advancement chair is probably the most reliable for going on every camp-out, I am a close second, then our SM and CC.  The other ASM's maybe make 2-3 a year.

[an_old_DC]

2 hours ago, blw2 said:

In my opinion, a person that only camps once or even twice per year should be a committee member....& not necessarily that committee folks should camp routinely.  More that they can and should on rare occasion, in their capacity of "observe and advise".  As I mentioned before, a troop really shouldn't need that many ASM's, so what would be the point?  My gut tells me that a good ratio would be maybe half of the trips.....

I agree with you but I couldn't get the CC to go along with that and I didn't want to make empty threats. She would only agree to move them from ASM to comm member if they wouldn't camp one a school year.

When I was SM, the troop had approximately 70 Scouts. the troop ran well when I was SM with two strong ASMs. 

[WonderBoy]

My guideline has usually been the "ideal" troop makeup from "back in MY day" of my old council contingent to a National Jamboree. Four patrols of eight Scouts, plus 4 leadership Scouts (SPL, ASPL, QM & Scribe?) for 36 Scouts. This was accompanied by four adults: one SM and three ASM, one of which had to be between 18-21. One of the ASMs may have been focused primary on helping the Quartermaster, but my ancient history is a little fuzzy at this point. Obviously not everyone's situation matches these numbers and this was back when two deep leadership was just good practice and not policy etched in stone. But it meant there was one adult eating with each patrol to help ensure Scouts were adequately feeding themselves and provide any requested guidance. It also meant that in the event of an individual emergency, one or two adults could attend to it and still leave two adults to supervise the rest of the troop. 

Does a Troop need more than "X" number of ASMs? Maybe not. But leaders need backups and eventual replacements. And getting someone fully trained and certified takes time and energy. And I've never worked with or in a volunteer organization that could afford the luxury of turning away willing help.

My oldest son's Troop is on the small side (they just grew to 16 boys and had to form a second patrol!) and is constant need for trained adults to ensure two deep leadership for campouts. Do they need more ASMs? Not really. More Committee Members? No. But until they institute a "Reserve Assistant Scoutmaster" or "Qualified Transportation Specialist", ASM or Committee Member are the only real options for some Troops to ensure enough trained adults are available for when the Scouts want to go camping.

 

Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary, test on unseen area before washing...

[ParkMan]

I agree @WonderBoy.  You've captured nicely what I've found.

I definitely find we need to think about succession planning.  We have a few ASMs who are newer and are learning the ropes.  Some eventually get more active, some not.  But, when we don't have those folks in the wings and someone leaves, we have to scramble.

I used to convert less active ASMs to Committee Members.  But, as I learned about Troop operations, I realized how important a strong Committee is.  So, I started really focusing on building up the committee.  Coming out of that - I only register Committee Members as those people who want to be Committee Members.  

So, we register folks for whatever position their heart desires.  We try to then encourage them to get active.  It's probably not ideal, but it seems to work.

We're starting to experiment with the Unit Scouter Reserve position.  The idea is to point those people to it that want to register, but not take training or take on a role.  I'm not sure if it will fly - but we'll see.

 

 

[Chisos]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

We're starting to experiment with the Unit Scouter Reserve position.  The idea is to point those people to it that want to register, but not take training or take on a role.  I'm not sure if it will fly - but we'll see.

 

 

I'm wondering if we'll start to see that one used with the new rule that all adults on outings more than 72 hrs have to be registered.  Like for a parent that's not otherwise involved, but helps drive to summer camp or something like that.