Adults at it Again

[Eagledad]

Well to be fair, the challenge for all adult leaders is learning to resist pushing the program the way they think it should run. The adults goals are Character development, Citizenship participation, and fitness. The scouts reach those goals through the actions of the eight methods. That sounds easy, but most adults need experience to figure out how scouting activities work toward those goals. So, instead of focusing on goals we don't understand, we get more involved on the eight methods. And it is a show stopper because the reality is adults ideas are limitations to scouts decisions. I was one of the worst.

That is why I taught new adults of new troops to give the scouts the SPL and PL handbooks and let them go. That forces the adults to step back and watch how they scouts decisions effect reaching the adult goals of Character, Citizenship and Fitness. It's now quick, but it helps both the scouts and adults start in the right direction.

Barry

[Tampa Turtle]

10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Well to be fair, the challenge for all adult leaders is learning to resist pushing the program the way they think it should run. The adults goals are Character development, Citizenship participation, and fitness. The scouts reach those goals through the actions of the eight methods. That sounds easy, but most adults need experience to figure out how scouting activities work toward those goals. So, instead of focusing on goals we don't understand, we get more involved on the eight methods. And it is a show stopper because the reality is adults ideas are limitations to scouts decisions. I was one of the worst.

That is why I taught new adults of new troops to give the scouts the SPL and PL handbooks and let them go. That forces the adults to step back and watch how they scouts decisions effect reaching the adult goals of Character, Citizenship and Fitness. It's now quick, but it helps both the scouts and adults start in the right direction.

Barry

It is hard to do in practice...I talk a good game but mettled and screwed things up in my time.

[DuctTape]

5 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

It is hard to do in practice...I talk a good game but mettled and screwed things up in my time.

I think we all did.

[Eagledad]

3 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

It is hard to do in practice...I talk a good game but mettled and screwed things up in my time.

I hear you. We all do.

That is why the greatest character attribute scouts can learn from adults is humility.

Barry

[MattR]

Our SPLs pick their ASPLs. Our current SPL is not real happy with his choice. He may be encouraging the ASPL to step aside. I was surprised when he made that choice.

Since the SPL has to make it all work, I think he should get his own choice. If the ASPL is good then when it comes time to voting he's going to get it. If he's not good then he won't get it. It works. I've also seen scouts that, after having been ASPL, decided SPL was not for them.

BTW, we do have the patrols pick the SPL. Those wanting it give a speech. The patrols talk. The PLs vote.

We're back to voting on a schedule but I did like it when the patrol leaders made their own schedule. Getting them out of sync helped the transition. I think a good idea would be 6 months, plus or minus 2. There are different reasons why scouts would like to change the schedule. Basically you have to have an election every so often but if you want to do it earlier then go for it. They can make that decision.

[Tampa Turtle]

37 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I hear you. We all do.

That is why the greatest character attribute scouts can learn from adults is humility.

Barry

An honest 'I screwed up' can go a long way.

[Eagle94-A1]

We all have made mistakes. We've jumped in when we should not have. I was absolutely horrible as a new ASM straight from the ranks. I was running things as if I was the SPL, and there was almost a revolt by my friends. Long story short, I had a lot of mentoring that year. And I repeated some of those mistakes as a new Boy Scouter despite knowing better. I occasionally jumped in when i should have left the Scouts to sort it out themselves.

That is one of my concerns with the ASPL to SPL route: disagreement among the SPL and ASPL. Others include not following through on 8 month commitment, folks unable to make a full commitment for 2 terms (although 8 months lessens that for me). I have a few others written down, but cannot remember of the top of my head.

Positive note, we are making babysteps.

[Eagledad]

3 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That is one of my concerns with the ASPL to SPL route: disagreement among the SPL and ASPL. Others include not following through on 8 month commitment, folks unable to make a full commitment for 2 terms (although 8 months lessens that for me). I have a few others written down, but cannot remember of the top of my head.

Positive note, we are making babysteps.

Two reason why troops go this route is they are overly concerned about advancement requirements, or they are dug into tradition. But why change if the routine isn't seen as a problem? Kind of like our PLC when I requested the one year SPL term, they couldn't see the advantage and I wasn't doing a good job selling it. 

Most of the times I've seen SPL and ASPL relationship problems is when the two positions aren't well defined. Even two scouts who don't like each other can get along when each has their own specific, and challenging, task that keeps the rest of the team progressing forward.

Most of us view ASPL as the back up for the SPL. But what does he do until then? They each need their own specific responsibilities that not only balance the team, but are also understood by the team. I'll bet the average scout today cannot list their ASPL's specific responsbilities other than taking over for the SPL. And typically all troops are a little different. In our troop, ASPLs plan and run troop programs. SPL delegates and runs PLC meetings. 

By the way, this happens A LOT with unit adults as well, typically packs.

Barry

[ItsBrian]

4 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I'll bet the average scout today cannot list their ASPL's specific responsbilities other than taking over for the SPL. 

Easy!

ASPL-

- Chooses who opens/closes (we change weekly)

- Runs all games/activities 

- Fill in for me

- Runs all programs (he just ran the shakedown on Wednesday for the Jr. scouts when I was talking with the adults!)

- And probably some simple ones I’m leaving out

SPL (me) -

- Delegate

- Plans fundraisers/programs

- Run fundraisers (Currently planning a clothing drive & incharge of the email for our new pickup service)

- Run PLC

- Advancement (we don’t have any guides or instructors, small troop).

Edited April 13, 2018 by ItsBrian

[Eagle94-A1]

Update:

SM announced the changes tonite. For once there was no side conversations whatsoever going on. Talking to my peanut gallery on the ride home 1) both do not like the adults making the decision arbitrarily 2) both do not like the ASPL automatically becoming SPL, 3) both like the 4 month term of office, 4) both like regular PLCs ( It went from a 30 minute PLC to a 10 minute PLC once a month. I'm not happy about that).

Both boys have decided to run for PL of their respective patrols.

[ItsBrian]

9 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Update:

SM announced the changes tonite. For once there was no side conversations whatsoever going on. Talking to my peanut gallery on the ride home 1) both do not like the adults making the decision arbitrarily 2) both do not like the ASPL automatically becoming SPL, 3) both like the 4 month term of office, 4) both like regular PLCs ( It went from a 30 minute PLC to a 10 minute PLC once a month. I'm not happy about that).

Both boys have decided to run for PL of their respective patrols.

In all honesty, if you have a good PLC it shouldn’t always take 30 minutes for a regular monthly meeting. It takes us about 15-20 minutes for all meeting plans, upcoming events, etc.

I may get banter for asking this, but why not switch troops if this one is dysfunctional?

[Eagle94-A1]

4 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

I may get banter for asking this, but why not switch troops if this one is dysfunctional?

Good question.

1 troop does high priced activities. 1 troop is closed until they have openings. 1 troop is LDS. 1 troop just folded and 1 troop that is in worse shape than us just got one of the reasons why the troop folfed joining theirs. And after camping with them last month, they are not a fit for my boys. That troop left early due to rain. This led to a domino effect: they started packing up, causing a most of the Webelos to pack up. My youngest was willing to stay until it got to the point that it was me and him camping by ourselves. He went home with mom. and I stayed with older 2.

There is 1 troop that has a rep as fundraising heavy. But otherwise is very Scout led. Challenge with them is their pack folded, and they are slowly dying.

 

[ItsBrian]

5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

There is 1 troop that has a rep as fundraising heavy. But otherwise is very Scout led. Challenge with them is their pack folded, and they are slowly dying.

 

I’m sure it’ll be alive until your sons earn Eagle.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 minute ago, ItsBrian said:

I’m sure it’ll be alive until your sons earn Eagle.

It probably will.. But I forgot to mention the other reason for not switching, which is also the #1 reason, their friends. They do not want to leave them behind, even though they both have friends in that troop. They know it's on the table, but both want to try and change the troop from the inside. Last night's announcement got the middle son to run for PL, and after some consideration, oldest is running for PL again.