Our Council's New Gender Inclusive Branding

[qwazse]

26 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

But there are other things named Spirit of Adventure.  I also don't think my council could simply drop "Council."  If you google "Patriots Path" the majority of hits on the first page are about the hiking trail (which existed before the council did.)  "Patriots Path Scouting"?  I don't know.  I don't see any benefit to it.  Maybe they should just focus on the program and making this transition a smooth one, rather than the branding, but I guess that's just me.

When I hear Northern Star, I always think Alaska.  So, there is no level of branding that I think will clean up that mess. Headwater, Whooping Crane, Thousand Lakes, Bread-Basket-When-Thawed, would have captured the location. Clearly, their board wants the Minnesotan-on-the-street to think of something else.

I think Laurel Highlands Council really nailed it after Greater Pittsburgh and Penn's Woods councils merged by soliciting names from its membership then having a vote on the favorites, followed by an art contest and another vote for the council patch. Our logo is the BSA's with the council name beneath it. Even when Potomac council had to merge with us, the name fit. (The only change: "Pennsylvania" was dropped from the council patch.)

So, you all might not know where we come from by looking at our shoulder, but we do. Yesterday, guests from upstate New York were talking about how they were wowed by the rhododendron at Falling Water. I encouraged them to come back in June. (Note to self: have council patches ready to give the next time they visit!) 

If mergers can't be pretty, they should at least be fun.

[HashTagScouts]

50 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I hear "Spirit of Adventure' I also think the following things as well:

- Some Ad mounted on the gas pump for an oil company credit card I see as I am filling up the Turtle Mobile. Kind of a competing version of 'lure of the open road'.

- The name of a fake steamboat at Disney World that takes you to Tom Sawyer island or something.

- A tagline on a  jacket Ad from REI that looks good and I can never afford. 

Seems kind of generic corporate inspirational...see it everywhere. 

I m not in that council, but I would agree with you- it could be a generic council anywhere in the US, says nothing about the area or its history.

[Eagle1993]

53 minutes ago, qwazse said:

When I hear Northern Star, I always think Alaska.  So, there is no level of branding that I think will clean up that mess. Headwater, Whooping Crane, Thousand Lakes, Bread-Basket-When-Thawed, would have captured the location. Clearly, their board wants the Minnesotan-on-the-street to think of something else.

I think Laurel Highlands Council really nailed it after Greater Pittsburgh and Penn's Woods councils merged by soliciting names from its membership then having a vote on the favorites, followed by an art contest and another vote for the council patch. Our logo is the BSA's with the council name beneath it. Even when Potomac council had to merge with us, the name fit. (The only change: "Pennsylvania" was dropped from the council patch.)

So, you all might not know where we come from by looking at our shoulder, but we do. Yesterday, guests from upstate New York were talking about how they were wowed by the rhododendron at Falling Water. I encouraged them to come back in June. (Note to self: have council patches ready to give the next time they visit!) 

If mergers can't be pretty, they should at least be fun.

I think hockey and the fact that Dallas stole their team. 

[FireStone]

5 hours ago, qwazse said:

My guess is that this is a bit of "tail trying to wag the dog."

The last scentence of the introduction uses marketing mind tricks like "bit dated" and "fresh look" without identifying who disliked the old logo and who was calling for a new one...

 

I don't think any mind tricks were necessary in this case. Side-by-side, the new logo seems like a pretty clear modernization to me. 

 

[fred johnson]

56 minutes ago, qwazse said:

When I hear Northern Star, I always think Alaska.  So, there is no level of branding that I think will clean up that mess. Headwater, Whooping Crane, Thousand Lakes, Bread-Basket-When-Thawed, would have captured the location. Clearly, their board wants the Minnesotan-on-the-street to think of something else.

Minnesota motto is "L'Etoile du Nord", the star of the north.  Chosen in 1861 as a homage to the french traders and missionaries that helped settle the state.  

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

I don't think any mind tricks were necessary in this case. Side-by-side, the new logo seems like a pretty clear modernization to me.

Their old logo has "Boy Scout of America" , a brand name. Their new logo on right has no BSA branding on it.  A BSA fleur-de-lis requires further embellishment - an eagle, two stars,..as detailed in link below.

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/310-0231.pdf

Reading North Star links which OP posted, the words “Northern Star Scouting” will become our tradename for everyday use, although we will still be Northern Star Council Boy Scouts of America for legal purposes.

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/refreshing-our-brand-for-scouting-today

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/our-logos-and-standards

Edited April 2, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[FireStone]

9 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Their old logo has "Boy Scout of America" , a brand name. Their new logo on right has no BSA branding on it.  A BSA fleur-de-lis requires further embellishment - an eagle, two stars,..as detailed in link below...

 

Not sure I follow. I responded to your comment about the use of "marketing mind tricks like "bit dated" and "fresh look" without identifying who disliked the old logo and who was calling for a new one..." 

[RememberSchiff]

3 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Not sure I follow. I responded to your comment about the use of "marketing mind tricks like "bit dated" and "fresh look" without identifying who disliked the old logo and who was calling for a new one..." 

Sorry, I should have quoted  @CalicoPenn regarding the fleur-de-lis. I just wanted to clarify that the fleur-de-lis in those logos are not BSA brand property; they are public domain.

 

 

 

[FireStone]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

Sorry, I should have quoted  @CalicoPenn regarding the fleur-de-lis. I just wanted to clarify that the fleur-de-lis in those logos are not BSA brand property; they are public domain.

 

Ah, got it. Thanks. 

Looks like I attributed something to you that wasn't your comment, actually. Apologies for that. 

[CalicoPenn]

22 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Sorry, I should have quoted  @CalicoPenn regarding the fleur-de-lis. I just wanted to clarify that the fleur-de-lis in those logos are not BSA brand property; they are public domain.

 

 

 

Actually, they aren't in the public domain.  Don't confuse the current branding guidelines with actual trademarks.   While the current Eagle/Star/Fleur-De-Lis branding is trademarked, the basic shape of this particular design of a fleur-de-lis is separately trademarked so that no one can take the BSA-designed fleur-de-lis and add something to it to call it their own.  This basic shape is readily identifiable as the BSA fleur-de-lis.

This particular plain design was used extensively in the 1970's - it is the fleur-de-lis of the baseball cap and the red beret.  It is still part of the BSA trademarks and is still BSA brand property.  In this case, it appears that Northern Star decided to just update the compass and just kept the BSA trademarked fleur-de-lis without the additional branding stuff superimposed on it.  I imagine that someone at National would have had to sign off on the new design. 

[FireStone]

31 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Actually, they aren't in the public domain.  Don't confuse the current branding guidelines with actual trademarks.   While the current Eagle/Star/Fleur-De-Lis branding is trademarked, the basic shape of this particular design of a fleur-de-lis is separately trademarked so that no one can take the BSA-designed fleur-de-lis and add something to it to call it their own.  This basic shape is readily identifiable as the BSA fleur-de-lis...

 

Is it really possible to distinguish a "BSA" fleir-de-lis from a non-BSA one? It's a pretty common shape that pre-dates the BSA. Lots of Scouting organizations around the world use it, some extremely similar to the BSA variety symbol. 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering if this is really even an enforcable mark. I always throught the trademark was the full logo, with the eagle graphic. 

[qwazse]

@FireStone, I've seen so many takes on stars and compass logos that I don't know what's modern, post-modern, or steampunk!

What your side-by-side comparison shows is that 1) the star symbol was removed and replaced with a compass rose and 2) instead of the slanted, advancing feel of the compass ellipse, we have the more traditional circle. To me it feels like the difference between running an orienteering course and sifting through historic maps. So I see a "space age" type icon on the left and a "old cartographic" icon on the right, and read the dissonance a marketing guy trying to apply "dated" and "fresh" opposite of my brain.

This may be a case of toe-may-toe v. toe-mah-toe. But it seems like a top-down decision.

@fred johnson, thanks for explaining the state motto. I had no clue! If they would have named the council L'Etoile du Nord, I might have made the association. But then I guess that's what makes me an outsider!

Edited April 2, 2018 by qwazse

[ParkMan]

41 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@FireStone, I've seen so many takes on stars and compass logos that I don't know what's modern, post-modern, or steampunk!

What your side-by-side comparison shows is that 1) the star symbol was removed and replaced with a compass rose and 2) instead of the slanted, advancing feel of the compass ellipse, we have the more traditional circle. To me it feels like the difference between running an orienteering course and sifting through historic maps. So I see a "space age" type icon on the left and a "old cartographic" icon on the right, and read the dissonance a marketing guy trying to apply "dated" and "fresh" opposite of my brain.

This may be a case of toe-may-toe v. toe-mah-toe. But it seems like a top-down decision.

@fred johnson, thanks for explaining the state motto. I had no clue! If they would have named the council L'Etoile du Nord, I might have made the association. But then I guess that's what makes me an outsider!

Yeah - I've got a hunch that you could reverse the two images and claim the same thing.  Modern is in the eye of the beholder.

[RememberSchiff]

Both logos bother me. Why do you need a compass if you have the North Star? 

[The Latin Scot]

I remember the time when I actually envied councils with cool names like "Baden-Powell Council" or "Trapper Trails Council" and other fancy stuff like that.

This is one of those times I am grateful my council is simply called Orange County Council, with a CSP that shows the beach and says Orange County Council, California. Impossible to get wrong, lol.