gblotter Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said: Felt the same when DRP was forced on us. And if you don't support the DRP, are you still worthy to wear the World Crest? What about unity and brotherhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, gblotter said: And if you don't support the DRP, are you still worthy to wear the World Crest? What about unity and brotherhood? DRP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwilkins Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, gblotter said: If your desire is to strip me of the World Crest for supporting single-gender Scouting, you will get your wish soon enough. 2018 will be my last year as a registered Scouter. After BSA is rid of folks like me, there will be no obstacles for your utopia of unity. Thank you then for your time over the years and the difference you have made in boy's lives. 17 minutes ago, gblotter said: This is exactly what I see happening. If you want a to maintain a single-gender boy troop, the available program options for summer camp, camporee, merit badge midways, etc will just push you aside. The girls will prevail and the boys will walk. That is essentially what happened with coed Scouting in Canada. Scouts Canada is now primarily a girl movement and just a shadow of its former self after dramatic membership losses. And the UK is growing, and has also been co-ed for a fair while too. We can all pick and choose stats to lean on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 minute ago, ianwilkins said: And the UK is growing, and has also been co-ed for a fair while too. More accurately, the UK is recovering after dramatic membership losses. Nowhere near previous membership levels. 3 minutes ago, ianwilkins said: We can all pick and choose stats to lean on. Yes, you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Never mind DRP=Declaration of Religious Principles. Thanks Mrs Google! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jameson76 said: Funny, I had the same sort of feedback when I spoke with our local SE (sorry CEO) after the announcement, he rolled out the term "conditional scouters". Guess the implication is I was only active and supportive as long as I like the conditions. Clearly the challenge is conditions have changed. I did not change it, you did not change it. Not sure this is all good change management I think all businesses would like to have some degree of "customer loyalty" or "brand loyalty" in their customers. This is to be expected. Most businesses understand, however, that the customers' loyalty will often change if they raise the price or alter the product. We teach our boys to be educated and thrifty consumers in regard to all of their other purchases. Why shouldn't we encourage them, and ourselves, to exercise good judgement when purchasing goods and services from BSA? Of course I am a conditional scouter. Being a careful and thrifty consumer is good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, gblotter said: And if you don't support the DRP, are you still worthy to wear the World Crest? What about unity and brotherhood? I disagreed with the decision to exclude those families from BSA but obeyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, gblotter said: 2018 will be my last year as a registered Scouter. After BSA is rid of folks like me, there will be no obstacles for your utopia of unity. I am trying to understand why you would disadvantage your own scouts by removing your years of expertise from your boys and I just don't get it. Unless (and some say until) BSA forces you to have girls in your troop, then what direct impact does it have on your boys? Even if they occasionally see one at a District camp out, certainly your boy scouts are well adjusted enough to not freak out or behave differently. Have you always avoided the World Jambo based on the same concern of seeing girls there? I get (and support) that there are many scouters that do not want full coed. I don't want such a decision forced on you and for your sake (and ours) I hope that doesn't happen but if BSA rolls out a program that is separate, as they claim it will be, then what negative impact are you expecting to experience by having another Troop have girls but yours doesn't? Removing yourself from scouting seems to hurt your troop more than the fact that there are girls in some other troop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson76 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: Never mind DRP=Declaration of Religious Principles. Thanks Mrs Google! Let's not be gender specific, gotta be inclusive That would be (and I am guessing here) Thanks Mx Google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 @hawkins I agree, but if a scouter is to the point where they can no longer function as a leader due to this change, a new leader may be better for the boys to help them deal with situations where they see another Troop with girls. Each leader who is opposed to the change will have to make their own decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, David CO said: Of course I am a conditional scouter. Being a careful and thrifty consumer is good thing. Except as adult volunteers, we are not consumers. Our scouts are the consumers. We are the instruments of the Law and the Oath. When we remove our expertise from this process, we are not deciding to buy a cheaper or better product, we are deciding that we longer want to help this group of youth learn the Law and the Oath. Quitting on our existing scouts might be the final "lesson" about the Oath and the Law that we ever teach them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hawkwin said: Except as adult volunteers, we are not consumers. Our scouts are the consumers. When I write out a check, I feel like I'm a consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Just now, Eagle1993 said: I agree, but if a scouter is to the point where they can no longer function as a leader due to this change, I don't disagree, but how can ANYONE in advance of what this will look like even come to an informed decision that they can no longer function as a leader? Again, if BSA forces a troop to take on girls, then I both sympathize and support the decision of leaders to step away if they is how they feel - but we are not there yet. We have only the FEAR of what BSA might look like in 2019 and to make a decision in advance of that conveys that the decision is not about inability to function as a leader but more a dislike of girls anywhere at all in BSA. Quitting over a fear of how a policy will be implemented, not over how it actually works. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hawkwin said: Have you always avoided the World Jambo based on the same concern of seeing girls there? Actually, yes. My son attended National Jamboree last year, but he is avoiding the upcoming World Jamboree despite recruitment efforts from our council. The flavor of the two events is significantly different (only partly because of girls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said: but obeyed it By obey, I guess you mean that you did not quit BSA over the issue? That certainly does not scream unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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