Family Scouting Update

[Eagle94-A1]

When I worked for national supply, my boss was completely clueless as to how a summer camp works. She envisioned it like a summer school where Scouts are in classes all day, and I only needed to be open between meals and classes and at night.  Told her night time would be dead until after the campwide activity. Compromise ensued: I kept the store open during the campwide activity no matter what and it counted as hours I worked. As long as I made 10 sales an hour during the time she did not want the store opened, it counted as hours worked, and I was suppose to get comp time at the end of summer. Only got 2 days of comp time instead of the 5 weeks they owed me. And she didn't make that deal the second year.

[fred johnson]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Call it what you want, linked troops will be coed units.  But that has obviously been the plan all along.  The dishonesty and doublespeak is just atrocious.

The whole one committee has 2 troops is again (as with most of this rollout) just a statement made in a world of fantasy.  Most troops have enough trouble getting a committee together to actually meet for 1 unit, much less 2 units.

Such a mixed message and really poor messaging.  As has been stated, the CSE and BSA National is plunging ahead like they have never seen an actual unit function in the real world...with real volunteers...and real actual parents.  There is likely little credence to the statements that CO and troops can elect to remain single gender.  No doubt that will change in short order.

BSA National...just be honest with what you are planning.

I understand what you are saying, but it's not about poor messaging or creating a program that won't be followed.  

The "linked troop" concept was created to dance a fine line alientating as few as possible.  This "linked troop" concept is transitional and will fade out over the next 5 to 20 years, after the contention and stress over this huge change has gone away.  

[Tampa Turtle]

55 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

I understand what you are saying, but it's not about poor messaging or creating a program that won't be followed.  

The "linked troop" concept was created to dance a fine line alientating as few as possible.  This "linked troop" concept is transitional and will fade out over the next 5 to 20 years, after the contention and stress over this huge change has gone away.  

More like 5 to 20 months.

[Jameson76]

26 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

More like 5 to 20 months.

5 to 20 minutes

[Eagle94-A1]

7 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

5 to 20 minutes

5- 10 seconds. My troop has already said they will be coed and segregated by patrol regardless of what national says. Only the CO will stop that. 1 Scouter has said he will drop, he does not plan on chaperoning coed camping trips. Another has mixed emotions since he has a daughter who has expressed interest in the BSA, but sees how this will hurt his son.

I stated that while the CO will make the decision how Scouting will be at the church, if the troop does go coed, the boys will ultimately decide to stay, transfer, or quit altogether.

[Jameson76]

35 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Scouter has said he will drop, he does not plan on chaperoning coed camping trips.

Yep - a whole new world there, while we as leaders strive to work and engage on character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness; that will become a focus and we will become less "Scouting" and more just another youth organization kids can dabble in

 

37 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

if the troop does go coed, the boys will ultimately decide to stay, transfer, or quit altogether.

And that is how the real referendum on these changes will be made

[Eagle94-A1]

We have one troop that has stated "NO GIRLS!" Only problem with them is that they are limited by the CO  as to the number of Boy Scouts they can have. CO views it as an outreach ministry, and fully supports the Boy Scouts. Very active in fundraising.  So trying to transfer into them is very difficult.

We also have 2 troops that are on the wall about going coed. Both see more negatives than positives.

All three have an advantage over the rest of the troops in the district as  they do not have feeder packs and Cub Scout parents pushing girls on them.

Two additional will be having meetings with their IHs on the matter. I beleive one CO will go coed, my troop's CO, but the other I have no idea. They have not been supportive of Scouting, and have already told the leadership no homosexuals or they will drop the pack and troop.

With the exception of the LDS units, I have no idea what the other 2 COs will be doing.

[Eagle1993]

@Eagle94-A1

I think you bring up a great subject regarding aligning Cub Scout coed packs and Troops.  One would think both packs and Troops within one CO and COR would have similar policies.  If Packs and Troops are headed in opposite directions (one coed and one Boys only) it points to weak COR/CO interactions.  We know that many COR and COs have limited involvement so I think it is critical that CCs between Troops and Packs work together.  I would argue a Pack should not add girls before reaching out to understand Troop plans.  If the feeder Pack includes girls but the Troop plans to remain Boys only then the Pack committee should work to find another Troop to feed that is planning to add girls before they decide to accept girls.  

[gblotter]

32 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

With the exception of the LDS units, I have no idea what the other 2 COs will be doing.

LDS already has rules against co-ed camping for youth activities. I doubt an exception will be made to allow co-ed summer camps for LDS Scout troops. If BSA summer camps go co-ed, that could spell the end of LDS Scouting IMHO.

[Eagle1993]

3 minutes ago, gblotter said:

LDS already has rules against co-ed camping for youth activities. I doubt an exception will be made to allow co-ed summer camps for LDS Scout troops. If BSA summer camps go co-ed, that could spell the end of LDS Scouting IMHO.

Do LDS Scouts camp in national parks, state parks, areas where Coed venturing units camp?  What is the minimum distance between a girl and a camping LDS Scout?  I’m curious as I expect coed summer camps to exist, but with some separation between boys and girls camp sites.  I’m wondering where the red line is for LDS in terms of camping.

[Eagle94-A1]

52 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

@Eagle94-A1

I think you bring up a great subject regarding aligning Cub Scout coed packs and Troops.  One would think both packs and Troops within one CO and COR would have similar policies.  If Packs and Troops are headed in opposite directions (one coed and one Boys only) it points to weak COR/CO interactions.  

Big difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is who runs the program. Cub Scouts is run by adults, Boy Scouts is suppose to be run by the Boy Scouts themselves. If a troop is truly run by the boys, and they do not want girls, are you going to stop them from running their troop they way they want? And every single boy I've talked to is opposed to allowing girls. In fact, the only people I've encountered gung ho about girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are parents. Even the girls I've talked to are not that interested.

[Eagle1993]

20 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Big difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is who runs the program. Cub Scouts is run by adults, Boy Scouts is suppose to be run by the Boy Scouts themselves. If a troop is truly run by the boys, and they do not want girls, are you going to stop them from running their troop they way they want? And every single boy I've talked to is opposed to allowing girls. In fact, the only people I've encountered gung ho about girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are parents. Even the girls I've talked to are not that interested.

What I find interesting is when I talk with Scoutmasters.  The scoutmasters that are gung-ho about adding girls claim nearly 100% of their Troop boys are in agreement and they have girls already asking to join. The SMs who are against this claim 100% of their scouts are against this and they have never seen a girl interested.

Could be a great psychological experiment.   Take a mixed group of scouts and put them into two different Troops.  One led by anti girl leaders and one pro girl leaders.  I bet I can guess the outcome of their votes after a few months...

If you are interested I’ll introduce you to my nephews.  One earned Eagle and is aging out and the other in a different Troop is on his way to Eagle.  Both are pro adding girls.  That way you can say you have met at least 2 Boy Scouts in favor of this change.

[Eagle94-A1]

28 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

What I find interesting is when I talk with Scoutmasters.  The scoutmasters that are gung-ho about adding girls claim nearly 100% of their Troop boys are in agreement and they have girls already asking to join. The SMs who are against this claim 100% of their scouts are against this and they have never seen a girl interested.

Could be a great psychological experiment.   Take a mixed group of scouts and put them into two different Troops.  One led by anti girl leaders and one pro girl leaders.  I bet I can guess the outcome of their votes after a few months...

If you are interested I’ll introduce you to my nephews.  One earned Eagle and is aging out and the other in a different Troop is on his way to Eagle.  Both are pro adding girls.  That way you can say you have met at least 2 Boy Scouts in favor of this change.

In my troop, the current SM and his future successor are both gung ho about girls. They are the ones saying the troop will be fully coed irregardless of what National says.Yet the Scouts in the troop I've talked to are not in favor of it. Haven't talked to 100% of them either. so they may be a few who are for it And I have talked to a few Scouts from other units who are opposed to girls as well. 

And as I mentioned one ASM is against girls, and another has mixed emotions on it.

What you propose would be a good psych experiment, but even with all the paperwork involved on using human testing subjects, I do not think it would be feasible.;) Plus I think a better experiment would be for the Scouts to come up with their own opinions. One of the things I liked about Scouting was learning to think for myself.

As for you nephews, if they are willing to communicate with me, I'm game.

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Big difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is who runs the program. Cub Scouts is run by adults, Boy Scouts is suppose to be run by the Boy Scouts themselves. If a troop is truly run by the boys, and they do not want girls, are you going to stop them from running their troop they way they want? 

This is a common mistake made by people who take the boy led argument too far. Boy led does not mean that the boys get to make each and every decision. Boys do not make membership policy. 

A scout can choose to join or not to join a unit. He does not get to choose who else can join or cannot join the unit. 

[Eagle94-A1]

While ultimately the membership decision is the COs, and I agree with that because they own the unit. But if you were considering a major change, wouldn't you want to know what your major stakeholder's think about the changes? National didn't listen to the membership when they made membership policies in the past. As a result, Scouting is suffering greatly in my area. The active volunteers who got things done quit because they thought BSA was not listening to them.  COs have backed away from BSA, going to Trails Life. Not including the inflated numbers from when I first got here, we have lost members and volunteers, and the bulk of that is a result of the membership changes.

So yes, I would hope any CO would get the opinion of what the youth want. In my case, despite the challenges the troop has, I do not want to see it fall apart over this.