Linked Troops - What are these?

[Buggie]

I've been interested in seeing if my daughter (age 8) could join a pack somewhere, but there's nothing on the council site lookup for troops in the area that shows a girl pack anywhere. We looked into GSA in our area, but we were told that the yearly dues were around $100 something.  Which was way too steep for us. I don't know if it was for that one GSA group or if it was for all of them in the area/state (Oklahoma). But it sort of rained on our enthusiasm. We encounter way too many groups (baseball, softball, band, etc) who want to charge hundreds of dollars for a kid to participate. It really leaves us out of the picture most times. 

[T2Eagle]

16 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That standard was in a powerpoint for early adopters. At the Cub level 2 adults over 21, one of whom must be a registered Scouter, can work with all boy dens, BUT one registered female over 21 MUST be in attendance at all functions of an all girls' den.

 

Gotta love the double standard.

Interesting, they haven't put that on the website.  Here's what it says currently. 

Adult Supervision/Coed Activities

Male and female adult leaders must be present at all overnight coed Scouting trips and outings, even those for parents and children. All male and female adult leaders must be 21 years of age or older, and one must be a registered member of the BSA.https://www.scouting.org/training/youth-protection/

[qwazse]

34 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

Interesting, they haven't put that on the website.  ....

I'll take your quote and raise you a current one from https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/familyscouting/ppt/Early-Adopter-for-Webinar-Council-Leadership.pptx

Quote

For all-girl dens

One registered adult leader and one other adult, one of which must be 21 years old, and a Youth Protection trained adult female must be present.

Saturday was when I just heard about this being applied to troops and crews (beginning next year, I suppose). So the usual "show me where it's written" is unlikely to apply.

[HashTagScouts]

14 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I thought girls wouldn’t be in OA until 2020 but was told that Explorer and Venturing would start OA elections next year.  Has anyone else heard of that change?

Exploring isn't an outdoor focused program, so not sure why they would be included? Venturing would make sense- technically they are not allowed today, because the OA membership requirement on camping nights specifically states "troop or team", no mention of crew.  The adult requirement also states that adults are eligible if they follow the same camping requirement, but I have seen plenty of 18+ females that are in Venturing (and not dual registered as ASM in troops) in lodges.

[HashTagScouts]

1 hour ago, Buggie said:

I've been interested in seeing if my daughter (age 8) could join a pack somewhere, but there's nothing on the council site lookup for troops in the area that shows a girl pack anywhere. We looked into GSA in our area, but we were told that the yearly dues were around $100 something.  Which was way too steep for us. I don't know if it was for that one GSA group or if it was for all of them in the area/state (Oklahoma). But it sort of rained on our enthusiasm. We encounter way too many groups (baseball, softball, band, etc) who want to charge hundreds of dollars for a kid to participate. It really leaves us out of the picture most times. 

Well, I hate to think it's just us, but our troop dues are over a $100 a year now - between the National membership dues, insurance, and required council activity fee, that is about 2/3 of the annual dues.  The rest is what pays for the advancement materials and class B.  We fundraise, and far more than many other troops, but it's a financial reality that we can't lower the annual dues.

The pack is pretty much approaching that same level now as well, and considering that Cubs have way more advancement swag than Boy Scouts, I can't think it is not reality they are going to have to surpass what we charge very soon.  

[Buggie]

Yah, I don't know the particulars of expenses that any unit faces. Just the bare bones stuff one sees as a parent like what you mentioned. I know they exist, but I don't know the particulars... yet. I'm too new of an ASM to be aware of anything in detail.

One of the things as a parent that is very frustrating is when an activity requires fees that parent's can't afford. I've no problem with fees, as one can't run an organization without them, but when they prohibit any kid from joining in I feel like it cheats everyone out of an experience. Part of the fun of scouting is diversity. You can meet and become friends with people from all over the community and the nation. And when a barrier is erected, even unintentionally, that diversity suffers. Someone can't join in and that someone is part of the collective that is scouting. 

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but life can sure stink at times. 

[Eagle1993]

2 hours ago, Buggie said:

I've been interested in seeing if my daughter (age 8) could join a pack somewhere, but there's nothing on the council site lookup for troops in the area that shows a girl pack anywhere. We looked into GSA in our area, but we were told that the yearly dues were around $100 something.  Which was way too steep for us. I don't know if it was for that one GSA group or if it was for all of them in the area/state (Oklahoma). But it sort of rained on our enthusiasm. We encounter way too many groups (baseball, softball, band, etc) who want to charge hundreds of dollars for a kid to participate. It really leaves us out of the picture most times. 

Keep watching for more options for girls this summer.  In my council, there are only 2-3 packs that are early adopters and accepted girls.  However, I know many Packs planning on adding girls for 2018-2019. So, I would expect you should see options starting this summer.   If financial issues prevent you from joining you should reach out to the council or even the Pack leadership.  I know for our Pack we would never want financial issues preventing participation and we actively tell parents if the charges are an issue we will work with them. 

[ParkMan]

56 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Keep watching for more options for girls this summer.  In my council, there are only 2-3 packs that are early adopters and accepted girls.  However, I know many Packs planning on adding girls for 2018-2019. So, I would expect you should see options starting this summer.   If financial issues prevent you from joining you should reach out to the council or even the Pack leadership.  I know for our Pack we would never want financial issues preventing participation and we actively tell parents if the charges are an issue we will work with them. 

I would concur. 

- As a pack leader and a troop leader, we always maintained the policy that dues could be adjusted as needed.  We always believed that no scout should be turned away because of fees.

- Our council also has a uniform program.  They would provide a full uniform to any scout that needed one.  I don't think this was widely known - but we used it for scouts several times.

 

I would say that $100 for dues are not crazy in our area.  With National's fee being $33 a year it pushes up unit dues.  I think ours are in the $75 range now.  With that, we barely make ends meet as a unit.  It doesn't take long to rack up 20-30 dollars a year in awards.

[an_old_DC]

16 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I thought girls wouldn’t be in OA until 2020 but was told that Explorer and Venturing would start OA elections next year.  Has anyone else heard of that change?

How could they earn First Class in time?

 

[an_old_DC]

1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

Venturing would make sense- technically they are not allowed today, because the OA membership requirement on camping nights specifically states "troop or team", no mention of crew.  

The hitch historically is that girls cannot earn First Class as a Boy Scout, and the only way for males to earn First Class is through their troop, which is where males would have been elected.  so crews cannot hold OA elections because their members do not meet eligibility requirements. 

[T2Eagle]

4 hours ago, qwazse said:

I'll take your quote and raise you a current one from https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/familyscouting/ppt/Early-Adopter-for-Webinar-Council-Leadership.pptx

Saturday was when I just heard about this being applied to troops and crews (beginning next year, I suppose). So the usual "show me where it's written" is unlikely to apply.

That still seems a little inexact to me.  I never understood the two adults requirement to apply to all meetings in the same way it applies to trips and outings, but they say that for boys this is not a change.  

But assuming that this is the new rule it doesn't specify there has to be a registered female leader, just a YPT trained female adult.  We have a fair number of people who are YPT trained but not registered.  In the troop, if you want to come camp with us once a year we don't register you, but we do require that you take YPT; we're chartered by a catholic CO and we require that they take diocesan YPT as well.

In the Den and Pack I can see this being satisfied by having a whole bunch of mothers take YPT, and as long as one of them is present you're OK.  Same in the troop, although that will be a bit more of a challenge, we have female adults, some registered, some not, on maybe 1/3 of our campouts.  Clearly a female troop would need to increase that number.  

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

That still seems a little inexact to me.  I never understood the two adults requirement to apply to all meetings in the same way it applies to trips and outings, but they say that for boys this is not a change.  

But assuming that this is the new rule it doesn't specify there has to be a registered female leader, just a YPT trained female adult.  We have a fair number of people who are YPT trained but not registered.  In the troop, if you want to come camp with us once a year we don't register you, but we do require that you take YPT; we're chartered by a catholic CO and we require that they take diocesan YPT as well.

In the Den and Pack I can see this being satisfied by having a whole bunch of mothers take YPT, and as long as one of them is present you're OK.  Same in the troop, although that will be a bit more of a challenge, we have female adults, some registered, some not, on maybe 1/3 of our campouts.  Clearly a female troop would need to increase that number.  

All I am saying is that if you're looking out for new policies on the horizon, the G2SS is the wrong place. The fact that the sex of a trained adult matters for meetings for early adopters is cause for concern.  That the professional did not correct herself when I said that requiring a trained adult of a particular sex for even meetings could make Venturing even more unworkable  ... but instead acknowledged the problem, is evidence toward the positive.

I'd love evidence that refutes what I heard. But, referencing the absence of wording in this year's policy does not support the negative regarding what I noted was on deck next year's policy.

Edited March 30, 2018 by qwazse

[HashTagScouts]

4 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

The hitch historically is that girls cannot earn First Class as a Boy Scout, and the only way for males to earn First Class is through their troop, which is where males would have been elected.  so crews cannot hold OA elections because their members do not meet eligibility requirements. 

Yes, understood- the OA could have put some type of "equivalency" of a minimal Venturing (ie: must be Pathfinder).  

[an_old_DC]

In 11 years of being a Crew Advisor, I have never had a female or male member who is not an OA member express any interest in OA. One young man was also our Chapter Chief, and later Lodge Secretary. Everybody thought that was cool but there was never any interest in joining him.

just my experience. Ymmv 

[Gwaihir]

Same Troop #... So this is just 1 Troop with boy patrols and girl patrols, which is what everyone was promised wouldn't happen.  National is playing the semantics game.  

Trustworthy.