Pack Life vs Troop Life, a Scout's perspective....

[Eagle94-A1]

On 3/6/2018 at 11:31 AM, ItsBrian said:

It’s definitely not the program, it’s  the adults/parents that provide it and how they interpret how it should be ran.

IMHO that is indeed the problem. Webelos IS the transition period between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Webelos IS when they go from parents signing off to Activity Badge instructors signing off. Webelos IS when they start going from "Do Your Best" to "Master The Skills." Webelos IS when they need to start doing more during their camp outs. Sadly I am seeing more and more packs and WDLs treat Webelos as a continuation of Cub Scouts rather than a a transition to Boy Scouts.

I'll give you three examples of how transitioning during Webelos does work.

My Webelos den growing up did more than the other 2 Webelos Dens. My den went camping on its own, had a Den Chief, and transitioned us towards Boy Scouts. My den Crossed Over into Boy Scouts and stuck around until an unfortunate incident that I transferred to another troop before it happened.

My oldest son's den started the transition as soon as they became Webelos. They took on more responsibilities, upped the game, etc. They were prepared for Boy Scouts, and pumped up. 4 years later later, 1/2 that den is still active. And I bet if the other half would have transferred to another troop, they would be in it. In all honesty the closest I have ever seen a NSP work out well, was when those 4 were in the same patrol as new guys. If it wasn't for the new Scouts from 2 other packs, they would have rocked. Out of 5 Scouts from 2 different packs, 3 quit within a year, and the 4th quit within 2 years. The 5th one had a hard time adapting, and cried a lot on camp outs in the early stages. Dad would not let him quit.  But talking to both packs CMs, the packs treated Webelos like standard Cub Scouts, and the results showed. They were not ready.

Middle son's den was the same way: doing things on their own, taking responsibility, etc. 3 Webelos from his den joined the troop to work on Castaway for their last camp out as Webelos. THEY ROCKED! One Webelos had his shelter built, firewood collected, and was cooking his lunch before I finished my shelter! We got 4 Webelos from that pack, and all 4 remain 14 months later. Compared to the other pack's den which used the "do your best" standard and had parents doing the bulk of the work for them. Out of the 9 that crossed over, 5 quit in less than 6 months. 1 Scout has only been on two camp outs: summer camp and a nearby weekend trip. And 2 Scouts won't camp unless mom or dad is present.

We had 3 Webelos Cross Over in December from the pack where the parents do it all. Of the three, 1 remains 2 months. His dad was a Scout back in the day, and began transitioning him 2 years ago, despite what the other parents were doing and encouraging him to do.

 

 

[JustAScoutMom]

Case in point...my son asked why we were having a formal crossover event for him to earn his AOL patch.  He said "he already felt as if he did crossover."  He started meeting with boy scout troops in December....4 months BEFORE crossover.  He went to the Boy Scout Camporee in January with his den, and they formed an AOL patrol for the event.  They attended our Webelos Winter Weekend (just like camporee, but for Webelos only) for the last two years and crushed it as a den....they were independent and self-reliant. The transition was seamless.  Not saying that there isn't something to learn....he is learning that rank advancement is different and he has to adjust to that.  But you don't start adjusting form day 1....you build up a Webelos so the transition is seamless and the effort to adjust is no longer so daunting.

[DuctTape]

One aspect of cub life, which if mentioned I missed it, that I think negatively affects troop life, is the family signing off on cub items. When I was a cub, it was the den leader only. Even when mom/dad gets that the SM or patrol leader will be the one to sign off, many parents (and scouts) who came through cubs will say "I saw them do it (I did it with my mom). Will you sign it off". This even bleeds into the mB program where the scout fills out workbooks with parents and then shows up at mB universities and gets a mB signed off. 

[Eagle94-A1]

11 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

One aspect of cub life, which if mentioned I missed it, that I think negatively affects troop life, is the family signing off on cub items. When I was a cub, it was the den leader only. Even when mom/dad gets that the SM or patrol leader will be the one to sign off, many parents (and scouts) who came through cubs will say "I saw them do it (I did it with my mom). Will you sign it off". This even bleeds into the mB program where the scout fills out workbooks with parents and then shows up at mB universities and gets a mB signed off. 

 

One reason why my sons' pack, with a few exceptions, i.e. religious requirements, has a  Activity Badge Counselor do the signing off. One of my Scouts signed off on the Castaway requirements for middle son, and the ASPL signed off for youngest since SPL was oldest brother.

[JustAScoutMom]

15 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

One aspect of cub life, which if mentioned I missed it, that I think negatively affects troop life, is the family signing off on cub items. When I was a cub, it was the den leader only. Even when mom/dad gets that the SM or patrol leader will be the one to sign off, many parents (and scouts) who came through cubs will say "I saw them do it (I did it with my mom). Will you sign it off". This even bleeds into the mB program where the scout fills out workbooks with parents and then shows up at mB universities and gets a mB signed off. 

This is why we started doing the STEM awards...since it had to be approved by a Nova Counselor....kind of like a merit badge counselor but not quite as intense.  Good prepping for BS.

[Thunderbird]

For Tiger though Bear (and Lion, I assume), parents are only supposed to sign off for requirements that are completed outside of the den meetings / activities.  Even then, the Den Leader is supposed to consult with the family or the Scout to confirm completion, and then the Den Leader approves the requirement.

For Webelos, the Den Leader signs for approval of all requirements, but the Den Leader can delegate this responsibility.  For example, a Webelos Den Leader could delegate approval of a particular adventure to a Webelos adventure pin counselor.  This serves as a good introduction to Boy Scouting and merit badges, except not as intense (as @JustAScoutMom put it).

See the Guide to Advancement (section 4.1.0.3 Who Approves Cub Scout Advancement?).