Have a few questions on designing an Eagle Project proposal

[fred johnson]

4 hours ago, eaglequestions2018 said:

...  since I will only have just over a month to get this done with a little built-in buffer time, due to the date of the election itself.

When is the election?  You said you have a little over a month.  Is that to the election or to an earlier date?  IMHO, a voter guide is useful when it is weeks or a month or more before the election.  As such, I would not want to use the election as the due date.  IMHO, it should be weeks before as as due date.  

If I was approving your project, I'd be looking at 

• Will you be successful?
• Will you have a good experience?
• Will you meet the expectations to "develop, plan and lead" a project?

View your proposal as an agreement.  Only put in as much as you need to clearly communicate.  It is not a plan.  But you do need to be specific.  I'd want to see your proposal say something like "I will be leading a team to produce a voter registration guide, host a pre-election debate and coordinate a voter registration drive."

As part of reviewing your proposal, I'd be looking for you to demonstrate your understanding of your project and how you will successfully make this happen.  Here are some random comments

• Usually an existing civic organization or newspaper holds debates.  Usually those take a long time to put in place.  If you have just over a month, can you make this happen?  Which position?  One debate for all positions on the ballot or individual debate times for each?  Where will it be held?  Can you reserve the space, advertise the debate and get the summary results out in a timely way?  I'd be concerned you just can't make a quality well structured debate happen in less than a month.  If I was a candidate, I'd really hesitate committing to something quickly thrown together.  
• You don't have to have the city be your beneficiary.  You could have a local non-profit.  Chamber of commerce.  Elks club.  Rotary.  Lions club.  League of Women voters.  You could even have a newspaper be a beneficiary as long as the benefit goes to the community and not the paper.  
• How do you measure success?  

Direct to the requirements ... To get the proposal approved ... communicate the following

• What concepts are you developing into a project?
• How will you plan each part?
• How will you lead others in doing it?  Where are the volunteers?  How can you leverage others to help execute the project?

Edited March 4, 2018 by fred johnson

[ItsBrian]

7 hours ago, fred johnson said:

When is the election?  You said you have a little over a month.  Is that to the election or to an earlier date?  IMHO, a voter guide is useful when it is weeks or a month or more before the election.  As such, I would not want to use the election as the due date.  IMHO, it should be weeks before as as due date.  

If I was approving your project, I'd be looking at 

• Will you be successful?
• Will you have a good experience?
• Will you meet the expectations to "develop, plan and lead" a project?

View your proposal as an agreement.  Only put in as much as you need to clearly communicate.  It is not a plan.  But you do need to be specific.  I'd want to see your proposal say something like "I will be leading a team to produce a voter registration guide, host a pre-election debate and coordinate a voter registration drive."

As part of reviewing your proposal, I'd be looking for you to demonstrate your understanding of your project and how you will successfully make this happen.  Here are some random comments

• Usually an existing civic organization or newspaper holds debates.  Usually those take a long time to put in place.  If you have just over a month, can you make this happen?  Which position?  One debate for all positions on the ballot or individual debate times for each?  Where will it be held?  Can you reserve the space, advertise the debate and get the summary results out in a timely way?  I'd be concerned you just can't make a quality well structured debate happen in less than a month.  If I was a candidate, I'd really hesitate committing to something quickly thrown together.  
• You don't have to have the city be your beneficiary.  You could have a local non-profit.  Chamber of commerce.  Elks club.  Rotary.  Lions club.  League of Women voters.  You could even have a newspaper be a beneficiary as long as the benefit goes to the community and not the paper.  
• How do you measure success?  

Direct to the requirements ... To get the proposal approved ... communicate the following

• What concepts are you developing into a project?
• How will you plan each part?
• How will you lead others in doing it?  Where are the volunteers?  How can you leverage others to help execute the project?

I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it. Meeting for your project with council is usually monthly (at least in my Council).

Are you sure you can get it approved, and get all the materials/volunteers?

I thought I could do mine with a month gap, but oh I was wrong

[ParkMan]

I want to echo others here.  You get one Eagle project - don't rush it.  Give yourself time to enjoy it and do a fantastic job.  Your schedule sounds too aggressive for you to get a lot out of it.  

 

[ItsBrian]

8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I want to echo others here.  You get one Eagle project - don't rush it.  Give yourself time to enjoy it and do a fantastic job.  Your schedule sounds too aggressive for you to get a lot out of it.  

 

Exactly! Nothing wrong with pushing it. I pushed mine 5 months since I got a job at my local day camp & I didn’t want to rush through it before I started!

[eaglequestions2018]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:24 PM, fred johnson said:

When is the election?  You said you have a little over a month.  Is that to the election or to an earlier date?  IMHO, a voter guide is useful when it is weeks or a month or more before the election.  As such, I would not want to use the election as the due date.  IMHO, it should be weeks before as as due date.  

If I was approving your project, I'd be looking at 

• Will you be successful?
• Will you have a good experience?
• Will you meet the expectations to "develop, plan and lead" a project?

View your proposal as an agreement.  Only put in as much as you need to clearly communicate.  It is not a plan.  But you do need to be specific.  I'd want to see your proposal say something like "I will be leading a team to produce a voter registration guide, host a pre-election debate and coordinate a voter registration drive."

As part of reviewing your proposal, I'd be looking for you to demonstrate your understanding of your project and how you will successfully make this happen.  Here are some random comments

• Usually an existing civic organization or newspaper holds debates.  Usually those take a long time to put in place.  If you have just over a month, can you make this happen?  Which position?  One debate for all positions on the ballot or individual debate times for each?  Where will it be held?  Can you reserve the space, advertise the debate and get the summary results out in a timely way?  I'd be concerned you just can't make a quality well structured debate happen in less than a month.  If I was a candidate, I'd really hesitate committing to something quickly thrown together.  
• You don't have to have the city be your beneficiary.  You could have a local non-profit.  Chamber of commerce.  Elks club.  Rotary.  Lions club.  League of Women voters.  You could even have a newspaper be a beneficiary as long as the benefit goes to the community and not the paper.  
• How do you measure success?  

Direct to the requirements ... To get the proposal approved ... communicate the following

• What concepts are you developing into a project?
• How will you plan each part?
• How will you lead others in doing it?  Where are the volunteers?  How can you leverage others to help execute the project?

The "little over a month" is the time I expect to have after approval. I've learned that the election is on April 28th, and while the district says approval would come around March 18th if all goes well, I'm factoring in a week of buffer time just to be safe. Making the guide is something I'd ideally get done at least 3 weeks before the election. My current plan is to send emails to candidate the immediate day or day after approval, and in the meantime, consult with other Scouts and perhaps troop parents about what they want to see in the guide, and how best to design it. Then, using that information I could fully design, create, and upload the guide with 2 full days of work, or 1 full day with 2 school days. That portion's a bit of a sprint, I agree, but the rest of the project should have a big enough time horizon in my mind to take a lot of lessons out of it, especially if the ending date is extended by me making a visual display showing whether/how this project boosted voter turnout, probably with some quotes from town members. Plus I may need to do a fundraiser on the end stretch.

Thank you for these suggestions, I will make sure to address them in the proposal!

 

[ItsBrian]

1 minute ago, eaglequestions2018 said:

The "little over a month" is the time I expect to have after approval. I've learned that the election is on April 28th, and while the district says approval would come around March 18th if all goes well, I'm factoring in a week of buffer time just to be safe. Making the guide is something I'd ideally get done at least 3 weeks before the election. My current plan is to send emails to candidate the immediate day or day after approval, and in the meantime, consult with other Scouts and perhaps troop parents about what they want to see in the guide, and how best to design it. Then, using that information I could fully design, create, and upload the guide with 2 full days of work, or 1 full day with 2 school days. That portion's a bit of a sprint, I agree, but the rest of the project should have a big enough time horizon in my mind to take a lot of lessons out of it, especially if the ending date is extended by me making a visual display showing whether/how this project boosted voter turnout, probably with some quotes from town members. Plus I may need to do a fundraiser on the end stretch.

Thank you for these suggestions, I will make sure to address them in the proposal!

 

One thing I got knocked down about at my proposal was not having the full safety things listed. Make sure you put a map to hospital, a phone, a first kit.

[SSScout]

It does sound like a useful project that will ultimately be appreciated, if successfully done.

My next question is,  how do you show "Leadership"?   Organization?   It sounds very like a one Scout operation.   Are there others involved in this?  And I do not mean your parents....

 

[eaglequestions2018]

55 minutes ago, SSScout said:

It does sound like a useful project that will ultimately be appreciated, if successfully done.

My next question is,  how do you show "Leadership"?   Organization?   It sounds very like a one Scout operation.   Are there others involved in this?  And I do not mean your parents....

 

Wouldn't your parents count, as the guidelines technically state that you need to show leadership over any two people, Scout or non-scout, child or adult?

In any case, I do have ways to involve other Scouts in the troop. Things like helping to distribute the guide, contacting nonprofits, interviewing people in the community for some sort of video. The last one is what another scout in my area did back when Eagle projects had to have a lasting impact. I don't think that's a requirement now but nevertheless I want to produce something that can be reused and increase town pride.

[David CO]

16 minutes ago, eaglequestions2018 said:

Wouldn't your parents count, as the guidelines technically state that you need to show leadership over any two people, Scout or non-scout, child or adult?

Family scouting?

[fred johnson]

15 hours ago, eaglequestions2018 said:

Wouldn't your parents count, as the guidelines technically state that you need to show leadership over any two people, Scout or non-scout, child or adult?

Wouldn't your parents count?  Reasonableness.  With any requirement, we need to think about thresholds and did you fulfill the expectation of the requirement.  It's like the scout looking to fulfill the camping MB requirement who puts up and sleeps inside a tent inside an air conditioned building.  Yes, he put up a tent and slept in it.  But he defeated the whole purpose of the requirement.  A reasonable person would say no.  Likewise, I'd argue a reasonable person would say you did not meet the expectation of the requirement if you only led your parents.  

I'd argue further that only leading parents would brake trust.  It's not hard to find others to lead.  Adult leaders also know parents often step in and take control of projects.  As such, I'd be very, very critical of a scout who said they only led their parents.  

BSA Guide To Advancement, page 68, 9.0.2.4 “Give Leadership to Others” ... This paragraph identifies the intent, but can't address every situation.  But it does say this.   

Quote

"One of the purposes for the project is to demonstrate leadership, but this could be considered a more important element, perhaps, for a Scout who has not yet established himself as a leader. It is for reasons like these that every project must be evaluated, case-by-case, on its merits, and on lessons that will advance the candidate’s growth."  

 

• So if I was approving your project proposal and you told me that you would only be leading your parents, I would not approve the project.  
• If I was sitting at your EBOR and learned that the only people you led were you're parents, I'd then be much more critical of your project.  You very well may have the EBOR suspended until you demonstrate another project where you did meet the requirement to lead others.  

As for your projects, you have many you could lead. 

• The candidates showing up and debating.
• The candidates being interviewed and answering your voter guide questions.
• The people distributing your voter guides.
• Those volunteers helping run your debate.  Setting up chairs.  Providing refreshments.  Cleaning up.  Podiums.  
• Have someone else publish the brochure.
• Have someone else publish the guide.

Edited March 9, 2018 by fred johnson

[DuctTape]

Another thing to consider when the "others" are solely the parents is the inherent hierarchy of the parent-child relationship. In some (many?) cases it might be difficult for either/both the child and parents to suspend that relationship hierarchy for the scout to actually lead. 

IMO unless the individual circumstances make it impossible to have others besides parents, I would be extremely suspicious of any project completed solely by a scout and his parents.