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[Thunderbird]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Don't know. If my memory serves me, National started requiring counselor registration in the mid 90s sometime. It wasn't a big deal because a fee wasn't required. Up until then, they general reasoning was MB counselors were not involved with scouting, but experts in the subject of the MB. Sources for counselors has changed a lot in the last 30 years. 

Barry

 

OK, as far as I know, merit badge counselors, Nova counselors, and Supernova mentors do not have to pay the $33 BSA registration fee.  However, they do have to fill out the adult application, undergo a criminal background check, and be current on YPT.

[Thunderbird]

7 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Well, sexual abuse and two-deep, digital etc are related; one is the problem and the others are ways to reduce the occurrence of the problem.

But generally I agree with you.  There is too much time spent telling us what the problems are and why they are a problem, and too little time discussing the "solutions," i.e. the barriers to abuse (2-deep, no 1-on-1 etc.)  It may be that I am a little jaded about this, because I have either taken or "facilitated" (back when it was an in-person-only course) the various versions of YPT going back to 1999, probably 25 times or so.  For awhile the district had me on their regular "teaching" rotation.  So I kind of feel like I don't really need to sit through yet another recitation of how much child abuse there is and why it's bad.  I know already.

 

I agree.  I wish more time was spent on how to prevent problems or things to look out for.  Solutions vs. the problem

[Eagledad]

3 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

 

OK, as far as I know, merit badge counselors, Nova counselors, and Supernova mentors do not have to pay the $33 BSA registration fee.  However, they do have to fill out the adult application, undergo a criminal background check, and be current on YPT.

Which goes to my response to Rememberschiff's parents' complaints about National requiring registration to get more money. If a parent wants to donate an hour but doesn't want to join as a leader, dropping the fee might make that decision a little easier. 

Barry

[ParkMan]

MB counselor registrations are still free.

We discussed this in our Troop Committee meeting last week.  Among the 20 adults present, I got very different feedback.  (BTW - I'm sharing the number of attendees only to convey it wasn't me and two friends).

55 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

What I have heard from the adults in my unit... 

    1. There is no need for this change . A second  adult or more has been more than sufficient for safety and program.  What is wrong with just being a helpful parent?  Why the added hassle?

    2. There is  no interest in paying an additional $45/year either by parent or by our unit. A scout is thrifty and the rest of us are  paycheck to paycheck. 

    3. Another commitment  is being asked of the already over-committed. It is not just one-hour online class,  one $45 payment, one background check , one hour a week.  They prefer the flexibility to participate as they can  and if pushed they will not participate.  Why turn away the help?

    4. Privacy  and redundancy concerns about registering and background check.  Our professional parents do not understand this at all.  A parent who is a RN/paramedic doesn't see  the need register to serve as First Aid MBC.  Where is the respect for licensed, vetted professionals? 

   5.  If troop is boy-led, why do we suddenly need so many more adult leaders?  Do we  need 1 adult leader for every 4 scouts or 2 adult leaders for each scout?  Our unit has 10 (no make that 9) trained, registered adult leaders for 19 scouts  and with  this new policy, we need more adult leaders to hold activities?

 More objections as they come...

Here's some quick thoughts on the above from our discussion.

1. Folks seemed generally comfortable that the BSA looked at this and the BSA decided that it would be better to have two adults that have taken YPT to one.  Of course, in our troop, the adults are all great and we wouldn't need any YPT training - but we could accept that the BSA is making general policy.

2. No one wants to pay more money - but if it's the cost, it's the cost.  $33 didn't seem daunting to anyone.

3. No one was too concerned that the 1.5 hours for YPT or filling out an application was a big burden.

4. No one was too concerned about having their privacy violated by a BSA background check.

4a. Our professional parents don't seem to mind taking a MBC class or being registered as a MBC to teach a MB.  The class & registration is about knowing that the MBC knows the MB process.  It has nothing to do with professional training.

5. I don't get why 9 adults are not enough for 19 scouts either.  You only need 2 per the new rule.

Edited October 12, 2018 by ParkMan
spelling of a word

[MikeS72]

42 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

Do MC Counselors have to pay the $33 registration fee now?  When did this change?

Merit Badge Counselors do not pay a registration fee.  They (we) do fill out an additional adult application, submit an additional YPT certificate, and undergo the background check.

[Eagledad]

18 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Well, sexual abuse and two-deep, digital etc are related; one is the problem and the others are ways to reduce the occurrence of the problem.

But generally I agree with you.  There is too much time spent telling us what the problems are and why they are a problem, and too little time discussing the "solutions," i.e. the barriers to abuse (2-deep, no 1-on-1 etc.)  It may be that I am a little jaded about this, because I have either taken or "facilitated" (back when it was an in-person-only course) the various versions of YPT going back to 1999, probably 25 times or so.  For awhile the district had me on their regular "teaching" rotation.  So I kind of feel like I don't really need to sit through yet another recitation of how much child abuse there is and why it's bad.  I know already.

I don't know if this is true, but back when this training was ramping up 20 or so years ago, some posters on this and other forums wondered if the training material was as much a deterrent as it was training. In other words, it is meant to scare off predators considering the BSA as a source. 

Back then we only had to take the course every 2 or 3 years. 

Barry

[MikeS72]

13 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

In other words, it is meant to scare off predators considering the BSA as a source.

In my opinion, the one that would be more likely to scare off a predator is telling them when you hand them an application that they must consent to a nationwide background check. 

On more than one occasion I have had someone respond with 'let me think about it', and never return. 

I had a parent a number of years ago who, when told that she had to be a registered volunteer, including background check, to chaperone a school field trip, first replied 'if I can't go, my daughter can't go either'.  She then made the comment that it is nobody's business what is in her background.  Needless to say, the child did not go on the field trip, and the parent never asked to chaperone again.

[Buggie]

With all these posts, I lost sight of the original hubbub.  But there are a few things I'd like to add/repeat. 

1. I like my volunteer scouters vetted and trained. (Pretty much goes without saying, but I state the obvious at times.) 
1 additional: Online training stinks. Oh, it's okay to go over the basics, but in the field training is so much better. And having folks who truly understand things is required. I have to ask the question, "where is that written" A LOT. My fellow scouters have all sorts of undocumented policies/requirements/etc. 
2. There are times I can't afford anything, as it all goes to the needs of my family. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't like to put people into that position where they have to tell other folks they can't afford something. I know how it feels. 
3. I don't like the idea of forcing friendly helping adults to register just so that they can assist on an event, weekend, or service project etc. I do expect said friendly adults to be watched by the scouters who have been vetted and trained. 
3 additional: I support that YPT and registering is required for events longer than 72 hours, as stated in the current policy. If you can afford a long event, you can afford to register. But see #5 below.  
4. Taking YPT without registering isn't too much of a burden. Takes time, yes, and you have to have internet access, but most folks do these days. Or have a way to gain access. There are communities here in Oklahoma that don't have access to the internet outside of a library. Yah, we're that rural in places. But that's the exception and not the norm. There's always outliers. 
4 additional: I do expect that if a friendly helping adult is a regular participant in events (outside of meetings) that they should be asked to take YPT. 

My big issue. 
5. I don't like the idea of friendly helping adults being required to register. The cost is one issue, which I agree makes it sound like a money grab. It's more the fact that no matter what position they take in the scouter track (TC, SM, MBC), they now are on the books and are required to take the positional training. Which if they don't, reflects bad on the unit. And that's a real hassle to get folks to take training, especially of the scouter doesn't feel like they need it. Or doesn't want to do IOLS if on the SM track. Also I have a problem when it is expected that the new scouter has to shell out money for a uniform shirt with patches. BSA states often enough that while the uniform is not required, you should be in uniform anyway. 

 

[Thunderbird]

If training is the issue, then have them sign up as a Unit Scouter Reserve (for ages 21+) or Unit College Scouter Reserve (for ages 18-20).  The only training that is required is to have current YPT, but they do have to pay the $33 BSA registration fee, fill out an adult app., and get the criminal background check.

If money is the issue but if they are willing to serve as a merit badge counselor (or Nova counselor or Supernova mentor), then have them sign up in one of these positions.  There is no BSA registration fee, but they still have to fill out the adult app., and get the criminal background check.  Yes, there is more training for these positions.  A merit badge counselor can limit who they counsel to specific unit(s), if they wish.