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[RememberSchiff]

It's the new paradym that parents have to be trained, registered leaders to help - follow along a hike, participate in a service project, staff a popcorn table that is not being accepted. There is no argument about requiring adult leaders to be registered and trained. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by RememberSchiff
paid? I meant trained :)

[ParkMan]

But parents don't have to be paid & registered to help.  

Before we had to have one YPT trained and registered (background checked) adult.  Now we have to have two YPT trained and registered (background checked) adults.  I just see this as the BSA recognizing that it is better to have two people present at events that know the rules.  There's lots of good reasons to have two trained people instead of one.  You have a backup, have strength in numbers, have someone who can correct foggy memory, etc...

Parents can still help till their hears content and not pay or register.  The only exception is trips over three days in length.

[Eagledad]

14 minutes ago, shortridge said:

It’s ~$33 and one hour of time. Fourteen-year-old summer camp CITs have to do the training. Why all the bellyaching?

But let’s flip it around and present it constructively. Wouldn’t you like to know that all the Scouting volunteers outside of the troop that your Scout comes in contact with - running camporee activities, teaching merit badges, timing the district PWD, leading service crews on OA weekends, operating stations at the chariot race, cooking at a Cub family weekend - are all registered, screened and trained to keep our Scouts safe at the most basic level?

Ah the condescending trigger words defense. Let's flip it back around; what about basing the uniform not required policy on limited family budgets? Bellyaching? 

Does National have a choice? Originally, MB Counselors weren't required to pay a fee for their registration. 

Barry 

[ParkMan]

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Ah the condescending trigger words defense. Let's flip it back around; what about basing the uniform not required policy on limited family budgets? Bellyaching? 

Does National have a choice? Originally, MB Counselors weren't required to pay a fee for their registration. 

Barry 

Seriously - I don't understand the volume of pushback either.  So some more folks have to spend an hour or two taking a class and undergo a background check.  That really doesn't seem like a big ask.

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Seriously - I don't understand the volume of pushback either.  So some more folks have to spend an hour or two taking a class and undergo a background check.  That really doesn't seem like a big ask.

As a parent who gets asked for fees of just about everything involving our children, I could druther on and on. Instead, let's at least respect the struggle some scouters are having to deal with. Parents and volunteers are struggling through a lot of major changes recently. National doesn't have a reputation of using a shoehorn to warm volunteers into their new policies. 

Barry

[qwazse]

22 minutes ago, shortridge said:

It’s ~$33 and one hour of time. Fourteen-year-old summer camp CITs have to do the training. Why all the bellyaching?

But let’s flip it around and present it constructively. Wouldn’t you like to know that all the Scouting volunteers outside of the troop that your Scout comes in contact with - running camporee activities, teaching merit badges, timing the district PWD, leading service crews on OA weekends, operating stations at the chariot race, cooking at a Cub family weekend - are all registered, screened and trained to keep our Scouts safe at the most basic level?

On one level, I agree that getting everyone on the same page has intrinsic value. But, there needs to be a way to deliver that training during the time that parents are with their kids on the activity. I think units are almost there, but not quite. For example, YPT in "multi-player" mode would enable parents to circle up during a meeting and knock out their modules with the added benefit of community discussion. Right now, they only way that can happen is having a trainer at the ready.

On another level, do I really care if my kid is being taught to paint a PWD car by someone who got caught with a late teen when they were in their twenties? No. That's mainly because, for every one of those, there may be twice as many who were never arraigned ... and those are the ones I'm betting on to be an imminent threat. Better the snake you know ...

Should I take comfort in BSA being able to deny liability (because of their comprehensive policy) if some predator slips through the cracks? I'm guessing in the long run, it will help keep dues low.

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

But parents don't have to be paid & registered to help.  

Before we had to have one YPT trained and registered (background checked) adult.  Now we have to have two YPT trained and registered (background checked) adults.  I just see this as the BSA recognizing that it is better to have two people present at events that know the rules.  There's lots of good reasons to have two trained people instead of one.  You have a backup, have strength in numbers, have someone who can correct foggy memory, etc...

Parents can still help till their hears content and not pay or register.  The only exception is trips over three days in length.

Seriously - I don't understand the volume of pushback either.  So some more folks have to spend an hour or two taking a class and undergo a background check.  That really doesn't seem like a big ask.

Well yes they do, at least in our unit, to provide the now required second YP trained, registered leader for all scout activities. 

Observing my unit,  this change is being viewed as more for money than anything else. Our program was working well without it. We have many qualified, involved adults who provide  "strength in numbers", they are just not registered for their own reasons. Maybe it is the stick and not the carrot approach being used?

In order to understand the pushback,  you need to listen to adults and possibly re-evaluate.   

Another $0.02

Edited October 12, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[shortridge]

25 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

they are just not registered for their own reasons. Maybe it is the stick and not the carrot approach being used?

In order to understand the pushback,  you need to listen to adults and possibly re-evaluate.   

I’m listening. What are those reasons? Genuinely curious here.

If registration is a financial issue, that I understand. Perhaps the unit can cover those. But objecting to taking training on some kind of grand principle? I don’t get it.

My teenage daughter took YPT this summer to staff Cub day camp. It was a pain, but she persisted. She also understood the reason why. If she can do it, why not a parent of an active Scout?

Edited October 12, 2018 by shortridge

[Thunderbird]

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Ah the condescending trigger words defense. Let's flip it back around; what about basing the uniform not required policy on limited family budgets? Bellyaching? 

Does National have a choice? Originally, MB Counselors weren't required to pay a fee for their registration. 

Barry 

 

Do MC Counselors have to pay the $33 registration fee now?  When did this change?

[RememberSchiff]

Just now, shortridge said:

I’m listening. What are those reasons? Genuinely curious here.

If it’s a financial issue, that I understand. But objecting to training on some kind of grand principle? I don’t get it.

What I have heard from the adults in my unit... 

    1. There is no need for this change . A second  adult or more has been more than sufficient for safety and program.  What is wrong with just being a helpful parent?  Why the added hassle?

    2. There is  no interest in paying an additional $45/year either by parent or by our unit. A scout is thrifty and the rest of us are  paycheck to paycheck. 

    3. Another commitment  is being asked of the already over-committed. It is not just one-hour online class,  one $45 payment, one background check , one hour a week.  They prefer the flexibility to participate as they can  and if pushed they will not participate.  Why turn away the help?

    4. Privacy  and redundancy concerns about registering and background check.  Our professional parents do not understand this at all.  A parent who is a RN/paramedic doesn't see  the need register to serve as First Aid MBC.  Where is the respect for licensed, vetted professionals? 

   5.  If troop is boy-led, why do we suddenly need so many more adult leaders?  Do we  need 1 adult leader for every 4 scouts or 2 adult leaders for each scout?  Our unit has 10 (no make that 9) trained, registered adult leaders for 19 scouts  and with  this new policy, we need more adult leaders to hold activities?

 More objections as they come...

[Thunderbird]

@RememberSchiff  $45 per adult?  I thought the BSA registration fee was $33?

[RememberSchiff]

4 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@RememberSchiff  $45 per adult?  I thought the BSA registration fee was $33?

So am I being over-charged or am I more of an annoyance  ?

I'll look into the former. It may be an added Scouting magazine or an autographed Surbaugh photo, though I have seen neither. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[Thunderbird]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

So am I being over-charged or am I more of an annoyance  ?

I'll look into the former. It may be an added Scouting magazine or an autographed Surbaugh photo, though I have seen neither. 

 

I think it might be some kind of council-specific fee (insurance, maybe?).

[NJCubScouter]

On 2/24/2018 at 3:04 PM, ItsBrian said:

Took the new YPT this morning (assuming I needed the most updated one for camp staff).

Its completely different from the old YPT in my opinion.

I feel like the new one is like a a documentary/lesson.

It focused A LOT on sexual abuse. I feel like they should’ve focused more on two deep, digital, buddy system, etc. instead of a 30 second voice over for each.

Well, sexual abuse and two-deep, digital etc are related; one is the problem and the others are ways to reduce the occurrence of the problem.

But generally I agree with you.  There is too much time spent telling us what the problems are and why they are a problem, and too little time discussing the "solutions," i.e. the barriers to abuse (2-deep, no 1-on-1 etc.)  It may be that I am a little jaded about this, because I have either taken or "facilitated" (back when it was an in-person-only course) the various versions of YPT going back to 1999, probably 25 times or so.  For awhile the district had me on their regular "teaching" rotation.  So I kind of feel like I don't really need to sit through yet another recitation of how much child abuse there is and why it's bad.  I know already.

[Eagledad]

19 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

 

Do MC Counselors have to pay the $33 registration fee now?  When did this change?

Don't know. If my memory serves me, National started requiring counselor registration in the mid 90s sometime. It wasn't a big deal because a fee wasn't required. Up until then, they general reasoning was MB counselors were not involved with scouting, but experts in the subject of the MB. Sources for counselors has changed a lot in the last 30 years. 

Barry