Sad sign of the times

[Col. Flagg]

50 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

I'm slightly hesitant to wade into this sad and dispiriting mire, and I won't presume to know what's right for your country, I really hope for all our sakes that change is made for the better.

Change will be hard. Even if we take up all the AR-15s and handguns lying around, kids could still make other things to cause harm. When people seek to do harm they will find a way whether it is a box cutter, pipe bomb or AR-15. We can take steps to eliminate some of the weapons but we will never get rid of all of them.

For me the answer lies with family, faith, friendship and fairness. 

[Jameson76]

20 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Change will be hard. Even if we take up all the AR-15s and handguns lying around, kids could still make other things to cause harm. When people seek to do harm they will find a way whether it is a box cutter, pipe bomb or AR-15. We can take steps to eliminate some of the weapons but we will never get rid of all of them.

For me the answer lies with family, faith, friendship and fairness. 

A good bit of Monday morning Quarterbacking sadly going on.  Yes he was a bit odd, but law enforcement can do little unless actual laws are broken.  There may have been red flags, but not sure if a red flag is against an applicable law.  No real laws against being weird. 

Good input that someone on certain medications and diagnosis maybe should not have firearms.  Cannot disagree.  But how is that enforced?  Database is trumpeted, but with HIPPA and privacy laws, not sure how that would be done

Well he was a little crazy, but the efforts to get somebody involuntarily committed are onerous.

[walk in the woods]

4 hours ago, FireStone said:

Is there good timing for bringing a gun to school?

I suppose it depends on where and when you went to school.  

[CalicoPenn]

3 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

I'm slightly hesitant to wade into this sad and dispiriting mire, and I won't presume to know what's right for your country, I really hope for all our sakes that change is made for the better.

Based on past experience, there will be no changes made.  If we couldn't get sensible gun control regulations passed after a school shooter killed perhaps the most sympathetic group of children ever (young children who still believed in Santa Claus just two weeks before Christmas), we'll never have any changes - not unless we declare the NRA a terrorist organization and retire every politician who takes donations from them.

[Col. Flagg]

It's not just the NRA. You can take handguns and assault rifles out of circulation but that won't stop people determined to do harm.

The NRA is the easy target (no pun intended). What about Hollywood and their role in desensitizing society with gratuitous violence? What about video game makers and their role? Schools? Degradation of the traditional family? Absentee parents? Lousy social programs? Drug proliferation? Crappy healthcare? Poor mental health screening?

There's a whole host of things that lead to violence. Blaming the gun lobby is the easy way out. It could easily be pipe bombs made with 100% legally obtained stuff from Walmart or Home Depot. You going to go after them next?

Change is needed. It may even start with gun control, but don't fool yourself that it's the answer. It isn't even the best answer.

[Gwaihir]

22 hours ago, David CO said:

It is very sad. Unfortunately, it is nothing new.  I think the Bath School Massacre (1927) is still considered by many to be the worst school attack in U.S. history.

Violent crime is still at historic and record lows, the lowest in recorded human history.  

One could argue that this is a direct or indirect result of boys being outcast in society.  Masculinity not being focused, tempered and honed to be production and protective of society, but instead vilified and called toxic, you're evil because you're male.  It's why the BSA should have doubled down on boys and figured out how to reach the boys left out in the cold, instead they opted to forget boys and target getting girls, who are already thriving in society.  It's a damn shame. 

"There are thousands of boys being wasted daily to our country through being left to become characterless, and, therefore, useless wasters, a misery to themselves and an eyesore and a danger to the nation. They could be saved if only the right surroundings or environment were given to them at the receptive time of their lives." - Baden Powell

[Gwaihir]

4 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

If you are the cop  school resource officer. I am not so sure about arming teachers...some of my son's teachers seem nuts. Really.

Utah has had armed teachers for something like 20 years, and there has never been a school shooting, or an incident with teachers harming students with guns.  If a teacher is "nuts" and potentially a danger to students, telling the teacher "don't bring guns to class" isn't going to stop the teacher from harming the student. 

[Gwaihir]

36 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Based on past experience, there will be no changes made.  If we couldn't get sensible gun control regulations passed after a school shooter killed perhaps the most sympathetic group of children ever (young children who still believed in Santa Claus just two weeks before Christmas), we'll never have any changes - not unless we declare the NRA a terrorist organization and retire every politician who takes donations from them.

I don't even begin to know where to start with this asinine comment, and thank you for calling me and 6 million Americans, including hundreds of thousands of cops and both active and retired military, a terrorist.   A Scout is kind, so I won't begin to say what I want to say to this comment. 

[David CO]

28 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Based on past experience, there will be no changes made.  

There will probably be some changes made, but not the gun control changes you want.

School security is very difficult at the end of the day. The doors are wide open as the school prepares for mobs of students to exit the building. This is when the shooter chose to strike. I doubt that this was a coincidence. I think it was a calculated decision.

I'm sure that this incident will cause schools across the country to reevaluate their security measures to determine if there is a better way to handle security at the end of the day. 

[David CO]

We are quick to blame the schools for not being properly prepared for this kind of tragedy. Does your scout unit have a plan for such an event occurring at your meetings and events?

[Gwaihir]

5 hours ago, FireStone said:

Is there good timing for bringing a gun to school?

Most of this nations history kids brought guns to school, they were part of rifle teams and shooting teams and put them in their lockers.  This isn't a gun problem, it's a people problem.  Somewhere along the way morals, values and the sense of value for human life got impaired. 

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then, let's keep it Courteous and Kind. Thanks.

[Col. Flagg]

Why is it that people want to take guns away from legal use under the auspices that access to them is bad and leads to crime, but they use the opposite argument when pot is mentioned? Access to guns=bad. Access to pot=good.

Either access to something is bad or good. You can't have it both ways...and be credible.

[Gwaihir]

Just now, Col. Flagg said:

Why is it that people want to take guns away from legal use under the auspices that access to them is bad and leads to crime, but they use the opposite argument when pot is mentioned? Access to guns=bad. Access to pot=good.

Either access to something is bad or good. You can't have it both ways...and be credible.

because it's people, responsibility and application that matter, not the object.  

I just find it funny that Donald Trump is literally a dictator, Mike Pence is going to electrocute homosexuals, cops are racist murderers who prey on black Americans and yet the tool one would need to fight an oppressive tyranny, everyone wants to restrict to only the government use.  That seems like a not so smart strategy. 

[Eagle1993]

11 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

because it's people, responsibility and application that matter, not the object.  

I just find it funny that Donald Trump is literally a dictator, Mike Pence is going to electrocute homosexuals, cops are racist murderers who prey on black Americans and yet the tool one would need to fight an oppressive tyranny, everyone wants to restrict to only the government use.  That seems like a not so smart strategy. 

Actually, the tool to fight tyranny is called a  ballot.  You’ll have much more success than going after Pence or Trump (or any other so called Tyrant) with an AR-15.  I would not recommend that approach.