Advancement - speed to destination or quality of journey

[qwazse]

Regardless of those slight changes, our Webelos are coming in a little sharper than before.

I remember when I was a cub, Webelos made you tenderfoot-ready. (Plus, in my den, we had some skill with the DL's '38 special.)

[The Latin Scot]

11 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If memory serves, doesn't the Webelos have to talk to the SM for Scouting Adventure? That could be the SMC.

That wouldn't work because the SMC has to take place while the Scout is in the Boy Scout program. Work done as a Cub Scout, even a Webelos Scout, cannot be counted towards Boy Scout advancement. 

[The Latin Scot]

8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

What I've been seeing is a much bigger divide between packs & troops that there should be.  The WDL are definitely part of the pack culture and leadership group.  I think it's just hard for them to think Boy Scout because they are so surrounded by Cub Scout culture.

What I've proposed is that we have troop leaders who were once WDL teach the WDL training course in person.  Teach the material from the persepctive they now hold being an ASM.  Hasn't happened yet, but someday

When I offer Den Leader Training courses for new Cub leaders in my council, that's actually a large part of what I try to convey. As a Webelos Den Leader, I think it's important to be aware of the local Boy Scout program so that I can sufficiently prepare my boys, not only for the program, but for the leaders and Troops up to which they will be advancing.

My den feeds in to the Troop sponsored by our shared CO, so I always make it a point to attend their committee meetings and to know the SM and his assistants personally. That way I can give them information about the boys moving up soon, any special needs, et cetera, and I in turn can prepare my boys for the program and group they will be entering and the leaders with whom they will be working. I view the WDL as a bridging character between the world of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, so I try to be deeply invested in both programs so that I can provide the best Webelos program I can now, while making sure my boys move up to a solid Boy Scout program later.

I don't have any kids of my own - I am not even married yet - so I don't know if I will ever be asked to serve as a leader in the Boy Scout Troop. But any Webelos Leader worth his salt will have Boy Scout preparation foremost in his mind as he prepares his activities and works with the boys under his care. This is the last year they get to enjoy to Cub program, so it should be geared towards the transition they are going to face when they move on to the boy-led programs coming up. My personal barometer of success as a Webelos Leader is this - any boy who fails to earn the rank of Scout within his first month in the Boy Scout program isn't entirely to blame. That responsibility lies with me - if I really do my job, they should have it done within the first week or two. When I first started, there were one or two boys who took a long while before making it to Scout. I took that to heart and made the necessary changes to my program and my leadership style. Since then (fingers crossed) none of my boys have taken longer than three weeks to get it done.

[Eagle94-A1]

20 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

That wouldn't work because the SMC has to take place while the Scout is in the Boy Scout program. Work done as a Cub Scout, even a Webelos Scout, cannot be counted towards Boy Scout advancement. 

Understood. I know once upon a time, when Scout was not a rank, the SM could award Scout at the Crossover, as well as waive the 2 months tenure for Tenderfoot. Don't have my original 1979 edition handbook, but the 1988 printing only has the 2 months tenure being waived listed.

[The Latin Scot]

I checked my copy of the 1979 Handbook and it does not include the waiver, though the 1988 handbook does. But nowadays there is no such "head start," though as a Webelos leader I wish I could give my boys a boost like that. All I can do is train them and prepare them! Which I guess is the best I can do. :-)

Edited February 15, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[ParkMan]

4 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

When I offer Den Leader Training courses for new Cub leaders in my council, that's actually a large part of what I try to convey. As a Webelos Den Leader, I think it's important to be aware of the local Boy Scout program so that I can sufficiently prepare my boys, not only for the program, but for the leaders and Troops up to which they will be advancing.

My den feeds in to the Troop sponsored by our shared CO, so I always make it a point to attend their committee meetings and to know the SM and his assistants personally. That way I can give them information about the boys moving up soon, any special needs, et cetera, and I in turn can prepare my boys for the program and group they will be entering and the leaders with whom they will be working. I view the WDL as a bridging character between the world of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, so I try to be deeply invested in both programs so that I can provide the best Webelos program I can now, while making sure my boys move up to a solid Boy Scout program later.

I don't have any kids of my own - I am not even married yet - so I don't know if I will ever be asked to serve as a leader in the Boy Scout Troop. But any Webelos Leader worth his salt will have Boy Scout preparation foremost in his mind as he prepares his activities and works with the boys under his care. This is the last year they get to enjoy to Cub program, so it should be geared towards the transition they are going to face when they move on to the boy-led programs coming up. My personal barometer of success as a Webelos Leader is this - any boy who fails to earn the rank of Scout within his first month in the Boy Scout program isn't entirely to blame. That responsibility lies with me - if I really do my job, they should have it done within the first week or two. When I first started, there were one or two boys who took a long while before making it to Scout. I took that to heart and made the necessary changes to my program and my leadership style. Since then (fingers crossed) none of my boys have taken longer than three weeks to get it done.

Nice!  We need more folks with this kind of vision.  

You're welcome to come be an ASM in my troop anytime!

[gblotter]

Why does anyone assume that a longer journey is a higher-quality journey? In much of my Scouting experience I find that when a Scout slow-walks through the ranks, it is because he is only partially engaged in Scouting and only shows up sporadically. That half-commitment is of course reflected in the speed of his advancement, too. Where in that equation does anyone derive that he is having a higher-quality Scouting journey? I see quite the opposite, in fact.

Edited February 16, 2018 by gblotter

[Back Pack]

26 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Why does anyone assume that a longer journey is a higher quality journey? In much of my Scouting experience I find that when Scouts slow-walk through the ranks, it is because they are only partially engaged in Scouting and only show up sporadically. That half-commitment is our course reflected in the speed of their advancement too, of course. Where in that equation does anyone derive that he is having a higher quality Scouting experience? I see quite the opposite, in fact.

Probably because the more time you spend in disney world the more fun you have. No one likes to come home early from vacation so that’s why people equate the length of time spent with quality. 

[gblotter]

2 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

Probably because the more time you spend in disney world the more fun you have. No one likes to come home early from vacation so that’s why people equate the length of time spent with quality. 

But you can’t have more fun in Scouting if you aren’t even showing up consistently.

[Eagle94-A1]

34 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

Probably because the more time you spend in disney world the more fun you have. No one likes to come home early from vacation so that’s why people equate the length of time spent with quality. 

 

29 minutes ago, gblotter said:

But you can’t have more fun in Scouting if you aren’t even showing up consistently.

Every Scout's journey is different. I spent 5 years as a Life Scout. I admit some of it was "the fumes," i.e perfume and car fumes. School and work also played a part too. But until Senior year of HS, every Friday nite, unless on an JROTC trip, was Scout night. And while I may not have made all the camping trips, I made a good number of them. I'd say on par with folks today. But for the most part, I was having too much fun and not worried about MBs needed for Eagle. Instead of summer camp, I was doing jamboree, HA in Canada, going through advance training, essentially having fun. I didn't want to do the boring "paperpushing" MBs of the Citizenships and Personal Management. I wanted fun stuff like Lifesaving and Motorboating. And I have seen a few Scouts liek that. One thing i have found that keeps them active is giving the Scouts ownership of the troop. A bunch of the Scouts who made Eagle were like me; active and having fun, but not focused on advancement until 17 hits them.

But I have seen a bunch who are not active, sometimes even quit for a while, only to come back and push to get Eagle. heck even know of one who tried to petition national for an extension due to sports taking up all his free time. Thankfully he didn't get it as I know a bunch of athletes. who MADE the time to stay somewhat active and earn Eagle

 

[David CO]

6 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

But any Webelos Leader worth his salt will have Boy Scout preparation foremost in his mind as he prepares his activities and works with the boys under his care. This is the last year they get to enjoy to Cub program, so it should be geared towards the transition they are going to face when they move on to the boy-led programs coming up.

We have the same type of discussions in our sports programs. Only 30% of grade school/junior high athletes will continue to play in high school. Should we focus our attention on being a good feeder program for the high school, or should we put more of our efforts on making the games more enjoyable for the 70% of kids who will, in all likelihood, never advance to a high school team?

The same is true of scouting. Boy scouting and cub scouting are two very different activities. Many boys who enjoy cub scouts will not join boy scouts. By making the last two years of cub scouts into a feeder program for the troops, are we doing a disservice to those boys who aren't going to carry over to boy scouts?

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by David CO

[RememberSchiff]

6 hours ago, David CO said:

The same is true of scouting. Boy scouting and cub scouting are two very different activities. Many boys who enjoy cub scouts will not join boy scouts. By making the last two years of cub scouts into a feeder program for the troops, are we doing a disservice to those boys who aren't going to carry over to boy scouts?

Good point. Webelos, back in the day (here he goes), was a shorter program perhaps for that reason, as was Cub Scouts.

A 5th grader Cub started his last year working on Lion (Wolf-Bear-Lion), at the end of the year you worked on Webelos/AOL for a short time. The requirements were learn the BOY SCOUT OATH and LAW, salute, hand sign, motto...  If Boy Scouts interested you, you joined a troop where you learned your Tenderfoot skills.

When you think about what preparation does an 11yr old need to join Boy Scouts? None, no experience required. Same is true for his adult leaders.

[ParkMan]

I've seen a lot of WDL who operate a program where the AOL year is the end of the Cub Scout experience.  Boy Scouts is a new, but related program  for the boys to do next.  I think this is why we see the biggest loss in membership when boys go from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts.

In my mind, it's a continuum.  Just as boys go from Wolf to Bear and Bear to Webelos, so too do they take the step from AOL to Boy Scout.  It's not that the WDL needs to spend all their time getting the boys ready, but they do need to make it a smooth process.

 

[DuctTape]

and don't allow them to join a troop at a younger age just because they have aol. 11 y/o or completed 5th grade. 

 

[Jameson76]