HELP - Eagle Project Fundraising Application - Project Soon!

[SSScout]

 A very worthy sounding project.

1)  Always good to fill in the form anyway.  Helps to define/document where the support comes from. Never a bad thing.

2) If the Beneficiary is truly doing the fund raising/collecting donations/handling all moneys  and the Eagle candidate is only passing on the donations he receives, sounds hunky dory to me.  Scoutson's project was renovating a barn at the County Fair. All materials were provided by the Fair. He directed folks who wanted to donate to write their checks to "The County Fair".

3)  I second the above concern to be sensitive to the religious scruples of your recipients.  Label contents.

4)   Is this a "one shot" effort, or will there be an ongoing effort ?  Is this only a single collection for a larger, established charity?  Just curious.  Always good to establish a "permanent"  affective project.  

5)  I hope that when questions arise, all the adults involved know to say "ask him"  and point to you !  

** Good work, Mattosaurus...   See you on the trail.

Edited February 14, 2018 by SSScout

[Back Pack]

37 minutes ago, cyphertext said:

The instructions clearly state that if the beneficiary is doing the fundraising, then the form is not needed.  Requiring the form when not needed is adding an additional requirement and is a waste.  My son's Eagle Project was similar, with all material for the project being provided by the beneficiary through a grant that they received.  No fundraising form needed, and no one questioned it at all.

I don’t disagree but I was near 18 and I wasn’t taking and chances. If I didnt have that form I would have been held up in my bor. I might not have made Eagle or I would have had a ton of other paperwork to do to get past this guy. 

[cyphertext]

8 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

I don’t disagree but I was near 18 and I wasn’t taking and chances. If I didnt have that form I would have been held up in my bor. I might not have made Eagle or I would have had a ton of other paperwork to do to get past this guy. 

I get what you are saying... but as the Eagle mentor, I would have gone over his head and removed that roadblock.  The Eagle candidate has enough on his plate without having someone add to the requirements.  

[Col. Flagg]

1 hour ago, cyphertext said:

I get what you are saying... but as the Eagle mentor, I would have gone over his head and removed that roadblock.  The Eagle candidate has enough on his plate without having someone add to the requirements.  

That's all very well and good but how would you do that during an EBOR?

Very few Scouters know the rules and process well enough to help in such a manner. Couple that with some overzealous district person who is full of themselves and their own "power" and you have the making for a unnecessary paperwork showdown which takes both time and effort. 

The silver bullet to all of this is simply filling out the form and getting the district rep to sign it at the same time he's singing off on the proposal. Done! 

Needless? Perhaps. But 5 minutes at this phase can save a candidate a ton of headache down the road. And if they don't have an Eagle advisor then they're not at the mercy of some egotistical district rep full of self-importance.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Col. Flagg

[WisconsinMomma]

20 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

some egotistical district rep full of self-importance.

I will simply attest that folks like this exist,  but also acknowledge that they are far outnumbered by good Scouters.

Edited February 14, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[Col. Flagg]

8 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I will simply attest that folks like this exist,  but also acknowledge that they are far outnumbered by good Scouters.

It must be regional. In my area they are as thick as mosquitoes. 

In the instance mentioned abovet, this person makes it their personal mission to determine if a Scout's Eagle project is "worthy" of being an Eagle, despite 1) not being an Eagle himself, and 2) only being an off-again-on-again volunteer to sit in on EBORs. He is not part of the sign off process and only insists on inserting himself on EBORs when he feels like it.

He and his cronies are the reason few units in my district volunteer for anything.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Col. Flagg

[cyphertext]

50 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

That's all very well and good but how would you do that during an EBOR?

Very few Scouters know the rules and process well enough to help in such a manner. Couple that with some overzealous district person who is full of themselves and their own "power" and you have the making for a unnecessary paperwork showdown which takes both time and effort. 

The silver bullet to all of this is simply filling out the form and getting the district rep to sign it at the same time he's singing off on the proposal. Done! 

Needless? Perhaps. But 5 minutes at this phase can save a candidate a ton of headache down the road. And if they don't have an Eagle advisor then they're not at the mercy of some egotistical district rep full of self-importance.

If we aren't going to follow the process, then why have the process at all?  The Eagle Scout Project should be complete and signed off before the EBOR...  It's a done deal at that point.

Questions on fundraising should have been asked and answered during the proposal phase.

This is why so many say that the paperwork is too complicated... because too many insist on taking extra steps just in case.  Read the doc, follow the instructions...

[Col. Flagg]

28 minutes ago, cyphertext said:

If we aren't going to follow the process, then why have the process at all?  The Eagle Scout Project should be complete and signed off before the EBOR...  It's a done deal at that point.

Questions on fundraising should have been asked and answered during the proposal phase.

This is why so many say that the paperwork is too complicated... because too many insist on taking extra steps just in case.  Read the doc, follow the instructions...

Again, I don't disagree one bit. But remember, many don't think that it's a done deal by the EBOR. Many think the EBOR is their last chance to pass judgement on the project and its suitability for credit toward Requirement #5. Others, myself among them, believe the requirements is completed when the Beneficiary and the Unit Lead sign off on the project plan's final report.

I would argue that it is not a simple issue of "reading the doc" as much as it is a case of adults reading the rules, knowing the process and abiding by them. Simply put: A Scout can read, understand and abide by the rules and processes 100%, but can still be torpedoed by one over-eager adult who does not. The process I recommend above is the insurance policy against that.

[RememberSchiff]

41 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Again, I don't disagree one bit. But remember, many don't think that it's a done deal by the EBOR. Many think the EBOR is their last chance to pass judgement on the project and its suitability for credit toward Requirement #5. Others, myself among them, believe the requirements is completed when the Beneficiary and the Unit Lead sign off on the project plan's final report.

I would argue that it is not a simple issue of "reading the doc" as much as it is a case of adults reading the rules, knowing the process and abiding by them. Simply put: A Scout can read, understand and abide by the rules and processes 100%, but can still be torpedoed by one over-eager adult who does not. The process I recommend above is the insurance policy against that.

Many? Where's the training?  If there was one member who pulled that crap at a EBOR in our Council, our Advancement Chair would educate that person rather quickly about Eagle advancement policies and procedures.

[Col. Flagg]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

Many? Where's the training?  If there was one member who pulled that crap at a EBOR in our Council, our Advancement Chair would educate that person rather quickly about Eagle advancement policies and procedures.

Yes many. Maybe not where you are but certainly where I am and among friends' districts around me in my state.

Training? Besides reading, understanding and executing the Scouting program properly, you mean? Any trained leader -- certainly anyone with WB beads with 18 knots on his chest -- ought to know better you think.

So to protect my Scouts and those of other troops, we unit leaders and Eagle coaches remain vigilant and run air cover for our Scouts against such tyrants. 

BSA should spend more time weeding out guys like this rather than other things they do. 

[RememberSchiff]

Installing a competent scouter as your Council Advancement Chair, IMO would be a better solution.

[Col. Flagg]

2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Installing a competent scouter as your Council Advancement Chair, IMO would be a better solution.

Yeah well that's easily said. I think you missed my previous ramblings about how council and district is run by the Good Old WB Network, where any idea that's not theirs is discarded or mocked. This is why few units spend any time at district or council events. We've tried and failed. Time is better spent making our units better.

So this method -- which is actually used by many of us -- allows us to engage any detractors directly and away from the Scouts. Since we have policy and signatures on our side they have no ammunition. So 5 minutes to complete a simple form and then get it signed avoids all that unpleasantness. That's FAR less effort than trying to take back Council or District.

[Mattosaurus]

So when I complete this form and send it to the office, will it even get signed in the first place?

Of course I’d attach a note explaining what had happened, but since I didn’t sign the form before I started fundraising, do we think that form will still go through? That is what the majority of my concern stems from. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Mattosaurus

[Back Pack]

10 minutes ago, Mattosaurus said:

So when I complete this form and send it to the office, will it even get signed in the first place?

Of course I’d attach a note explaining what had happened, but since I didn’t sign the form before I started fundraising, do we think that form will still go through? That is what the majority of my concern stems from. 

I would include your scoutmaster in this process if you don’t have an Eagle advisor. If I remember from reading the guide to advancement when I was doing this I think there’s a lot of leeway in terms of when you get certain things done and signed. I got mind signed when I got my proposal done but a friend got his signed days before he started. 

[ShootingSports]

19 hours ago, cyphertext said:

Why would you advise him to fill out the form and send it in if it is not needed?  The beneficiary is doing the fundraising.  

The beneficiary is hosting the site.  The scout is doing the fundraiser.