Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

[Pale Horse]

20 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

If girls in Boy Scouts was as popular as National keeps telling us, there should be a surplus of fresh volunteers ready to carry the flag for this historic change.  

Yeah right. Little Johnny Bear Cub's dad didn't volunteer, and now that little sister Suzy can sign up as a Tiger too, there's absolutely zero incentive to do so now.  Quite the opposite, now he has Baby Sitters of America (BSA) lined up to watch both his kids.  Him and the Mrs. have a night off.

Speaking from real life, our Pack has 3 sets of current parents (none registered leaders) with younger daughters they are ready to sign up.  They have zero interest in getting involved other than dropping off and standing in the back.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Pale Horse

[Tampa Turtle]

19 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Yeah right. Little Johnny Bear Cub's dad didn't volunteer, and now that little sister Suzy can sign up as a Tiger too, there's absolutely zero incentive to do so now.  Quite the opposite, now he has Baby Sitters of America (BSA) lined up to watch both his kids.  Him and the Mrs. have a night off.

Speaking from real life, our Pack has 3 sets of current parents (none registered leaders) with younger daughters they are ready to sign up.  They have zero interest in getting involved other than dropping off and standing in the back.

That is always the problem girls or not. I had 20 Tigers in one den and had to operate a month before I had a ADL (who was the US Attorney where I lived so like his time was pretty precious) would step up just to help me with crowd control. In Cub Scouts you have to twist arms...hard!

[Tampa Turtle]

...on the other hand....the boys feeding into our Troop is turning into a trickle (again) the last few years. We now have two feeder packs and share a third and are on the third year of only getting one or two cross-overs. I thought it was our program but when I checked in with two neighboring Troops they had big slow downs too. It was a discussion at Summer Camp in NC where many of the folks up there were experiencing a sharp drop off. So I can understand Nationals desire to recruit girls to bolster membership because it is right.

I get frustrated because while I carp here at the meetings I follow the BSA official line. And many folks doubted that their will be enough leaders to avoid gender-blended patrols and ,later, Troops despite what National said. I suspect that not only the 'separate but equal' scheme not survive contact with reality it will not survive the initial planning stages at the local level.

I'd LOVE to be proved wrong on this one.

[Gwaihir]

13 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

...on the other hand....the boys feeding into our Troop is turning into a trickle (again) the last few years. We now have two feeder packs and share a third and are on the third year of only getting one or two cross-overs. I thought it was our program but when I checked in with two neighboring Troops they had big slow downs too. It was a discussion at Summer Camp in NC where many of the folks up there were experiencing a sharp drop off. So I can understand Nationals desire to recruit girls to bolster membership because it is right.

I get frustrated because while I carp here at the meetings I follow the BSA official line. And many folks doubted that their will be enough leaders to avoid gender-blended patrols and ,later, Troops despite what National said. I suspect that not only the 'separate but equal' scheme not survive contact with reality it will not survive the initial planning stages at the local level.

I'd LOVE to be proved wrong on this one.

Wait, wait, wait! so what you're saying is "Family Scouting" is a misnomer and the "family" doesn't really want to be involved in scouts, they just want a one stop baby sitting shop????? 

[Tampa Turtle]

3 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Wait, wait, wait! so what you're saying is "Family Scouting" is a misnomer and the "family" doesn't really want to be involved in scouts, they just want a one stop baby sitting shop????? 

Sure seems that way, especially the first few ranks. Then you reel a few folks in. It has been so long with me in the pack that I cannot remember the proportions. By the time you get to Webelo the parent groups have gelled enough that people have found their adult niche.

[qwazse]

15 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Wait, wait, wait! so what you're saying is "Family Scouting" is a misnomer and the "family" doesn't really want to be involved in scouts, they just want a one stop baby sitting shop????? 

There's a reason why I omit the f- word doublespeak from my posts.

It's BSA4G that's in demand. For the past two decades, I've met girl after girl who broke ranks with their friends who prefer "glamping" to proudly participate in the BSA via any door that was open to them. None of those young women have said, "Please, Mr. Q, may I bring mom and dad along?"

[Gwaihir]

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

There's a reason why I omit the f- word doublespeak from my posts.

It's BSA4G that's in demand. For the past two decades, I've met girl after girl who broke ranks with their friends who prefer "glamping" to proudly participate in the BSA via any door that was open to them. None of those young women have said, "Please, Mr. Q, may I bring mom and dad along?"

I wish more would drop the f-word double speak and speak plainly. 

[RememberSchiff]

The BabySitters of America phenomenon existed long before Family Scouting. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[skeptic]

You need to take baby steps initially in most cases and be open to adjustments and downright stops to begin again.  We all know the old saws about pleasing everybody.  Take a deep breath and work with what you are comfortable and be always cognizant of YP issues.  
We know the vulture lawyers will be watching for any opportunity to stretch simple error into a huge issue for legal challenges and money.  

Tough issues will never be solved with only one attempt at getting it right.  In some ways, we are still struggling with the Black issue in Scouting, and it was on the table in the earliest days and in the forefront of National by the late 20's if notes from early conferences are to be read.

Society, and our views as a populace nationally are in huge flux, and Scouting is not likely to not get caught up in it even more than it has been the last couple of decades.  

Simple questions.  Why do we feel Scouting is important?  How do we keep it working as well as we can within the parameters of the rapid changes in society?  Is it still worth our time and effort, or are the frustrations at the "throw in the towel" point?

The answer will be different for each of us, but hopefully, it will evolve and get on course again.  Meanwhile, if you choose, Do Your Best.

 

 

 

[gblotter]

7 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Is it still worth our time and effort, or are the frustrations at the "throw in the towel" point?

That is exactly where I am at with these latest changes. After 10+ years as Scoutmaster and service at the district level, I will exit Scouting at the end of this year - 2018 will be my last year as a registered Scouter. I will do so with sadness but not bitterness.

I could swallow the prior decisions about gays and trans. Those decisions were made to avoid the distractions of lawsuits and allow BSA to focus on what really matters, but in reality they do very little to change the fabric of Scouting and how things actually operate on a practical level.

The decision to admit girls is a move of desperation, and it will change everything. Scouting will function differently in very fundamental ways. Anyone who has both daughters and sons (as I do) knows this to be true. A decade from now, I predict BSA will be nearly unrecognizable from what we know today (similar to the dismantling of Scouting that has happened in Canada). I'm just grateful my son got to experience the Scouting program in its fullness before this grand unraveling. He has had a truly marvelous ride, and it has been a thrill for me to be a part of his journey.

But, no - I won't be sticking around for this self-destruction - too painful to watch.

[Oldscout448]

That's pretty much where I am. Sort of  like watching them bulldoze your familys old farmhouse to make way for some new condos.

You know that it's 180 years old, in bad shape and it doesnt belong to you anymore.  But it's still too painful to watch. You would rather the memories of fun,love and laughter not be mixed with shattering beams and rubble to be trucked away to the landfill.

[Pselb]

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

The BabySitters of America phenomenon existed long before Family Scouting. 

And one wonders why non-involved parents and parents in general aren't really backing the BSA?  My son attends his Cub activities because he wants to be there, not because we need a babysitter.  I am a professional teacher, my wife is a stay-at-home professionally trained teacher that doesn't teach, so we don't need babysitting services.  With 3 home schooled children we have our plates full the way it is.  I resent anyone that derides our family's choice to enroll their child in the program just for babysitting services.  I am sure there are others out there that fall into such circumstances that have children in the Boy Scout program.  Single moms with other children who enroll their sons is the classic example of people too busy to run someone else's program for them.  I am sure they would prefer to have their child stay home from such programs because it is easier to keep them home than drag them to every event under the sun so that they can get "free" babysitting services.  The Boy Scouts is a rather expensive proposition when finances are tight.  Stay at home and watch TV is cheaper, a lot cheaper.

Surely these "humorous", but negative comments, have their place, but aired in public. especially coming from the forum moderators?  My son will stay in the program for as long as he enjoys it and gets the social interaction with others that is important to him.  It's not necessary to deride us parents who are not interested in the program, but have kids who are.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Pselb

[Pselb]

I guess honesty doesn't count for much here.  End discussion on my part.

[RememberSchiff]

@Pselb , take it easy. No one and definitely not me stated or implied that you and your wife were using the BSA for babysitting, only that some parents have and long before Family Scouting arrived.

@NJCubScouter, @Sentinel947, @LeCastor

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[Pale Horse]

15 minutes ago, Pselb said:

And one wonders why non-involved parents and parents in general aren't really backing the BSA?  My son attends his Cub activities because he wants to be there, not because we need a babysitter.  I am a professional teacher, my wife is a stay-at-home professionally trained teacher that doesn't teach, so we don't need babysitting services.  With 3 home schooled children we have our plates full the way it is.  I resent anyone that derides our family's choice to enroll their child in the program just for babysitting services.  I am sure there are others out there that fall into such circumstances that have children in the Boy Scout program.  Single moms with other children who enroll their sons is the classic example of people too busy to run someone else's program for them.  I am sure they would prefer to have their child stay home from such programs because it is easier to keep them home than drag them to every event under the sun so that they can get "free" babysitting services.  The Boy Scouts is a rather expensive proposition when finances are tight.  Stay at home and watch TV is cheaper, a lot cheaper.

Surely these "humorous", but negative comments, have their place, but aired in public. especially coming from the forum moderators?  My son will stay in the program for as long as he enjoys it and gets the social interaction with others that is important to him.  It's not necessary to deride us parents who are not interested in the program, but have kids who are.

Ignoring the fact that you got awfully defensive pretty quickly, for the sake of discussion why do you and your wife choose not to volunteer?  

I understand it's your choice, but curious as to why.  The scouting experience, especially at the Pack level, is entirely volunteer driven and reliant on parents.