Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

[gblotter]

16 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

And I think the BSA will be sensitive to helping boy only troops have access to resources.

I'm being realistic, not cynical ...

In their rush to make an announcement about girls in Scouting, I don't think BSA National leadership had even begun to think through the myriad of issues such as these. Forget about half-baked - they haven't even put it in the oven yet. Why announce something as significant as a new girls program when they can't even describe what it will look like? They are making this up as they go along. It is a move of desperation, and it is a reflection of their incompetence (in my opinion).

Edited February 13, 2018 by gblotter

[RememberSchiff]

3 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I'm being realistic - not cynical here ...

In their rush to make an announcement about girls in Scouting, I don't think BSA National leadership had even begun the think through the myriad of issues such as these. Forget about half-baked - they haven't even put it in the oven yet. Why announce something as significant as new girls program when they can't even describe what it will look like? They are making this up as they go along. It is a move of desperation, and it is a reflection of their incompetence (in my opinion).

IMO the rush was/is the World Jamboree at Summit 2019.

[Pselb]

Is it the cause or the symptom?  It could just be that the world around them is changing so much so fast that they are making rash decisions in a panic to catch up.

[WisconsinMomma]

13 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I'm being realistic, not cynical ...

In their rush to make an announcement about girls in Scouting, I don't think BSA National leadership had even begun to think through the myriad of issues such as these. Forget about half-baked - they haven't even put it in the oven yet. Why announce something as significant as a new girls program when they can't even describe what it will look like? They are making this up as they go along. It is a move of desperation, and it is a reflection of their incompetence (in my opinion).

They're leaving it to the locals to work out the specifics, and,  I expect there will be some trial and error.

[gblotter]

7 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMO the rush was/is the World Jamboree at Summit 2019.

I don't disagree. But if they wanted to make a splash, why not use the venue of World Jamboree 2019 to announce a fully-baked program instead of this botched rollout. The manipulative surveys, the deceptive information meetings, the predetermined outcome, and the lack of details (rest assured it will be amazing) ... I'm trying to think how BSA National could have actually done this *worse*.

Edited February 13, 2018 by gblotter

[RememberSchiff]

1 minute ago, gblotter said:

I don't disagree. But if they wanted to make a splash, why not use the venue of World Jamboree 2019 to announce a fully-baked decision instead of this botched rollout. The manipulative surveys, the deceptive information meetings, the predetermined outcome, and the lack of details (rest assured it will be amazing) ... I'm trying to think how BSA National could have actually done this *worse*.

Yes agree. IMO they wanted girl "Boy Scouts" at Jambo 2019 and to be there, those girls needed time to meet the same attendance prerequisites as boys.

[Pselb]

Well, they could have done it at the Centennial year, they could have done it at any time regardless of what is going on at the time and the reaction would be the same, but the coincidental excuse would be the only thing different.  And no, they could have probably picked a better time to do it "worse".  There's been just about any time from inception until now that the could have done worse.  If you were going on a long trip, when would be the best time to have an accident?    Well, everyone I've ever talked to never planned on even having one, but it happens.

...and when it does it does it at the worst possible time.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Pselb

[gblotter]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMO they wanted girl "Boy Scouts" at Jambo 2019 and to be there, those girls needed time to meet the same attendance prerequisites as boys.

Those girl boys scouts will already be at World Jamboree as part of Venturing Crews.

Any girls who are newly registered in 2019 will have already missed the deadline to join the World Jamboree expeditions sent from the local councils. Applications for those expeditions are being accepted and processed now (in our council, at least).

[Pselb]

Wouldn't a girl with any sense, who wants to go to this thing World Jamboree, just join the older co-ed program and avoid the hassle of breaking the glass sealing of an all boys' program first?  Sounds a bit weak as an excuse for all the maladies that seem to be going around lately.  But then I'm not savvy to all the fine points of how all this works.  

[RememberSchiff]

2 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Those girl boys scouts will already be at World Jamboree as part of Venturing Crews.

Any girls who are newly registered in 2019 will have already missed the deadline to join the World Jamboree expeditions sent from the local councils. Applications for those expeditions are being accepted and processed now (in our council, at least).

Those deadlines could easily change. I predict a huge PR push ahead of Jambo. Again just my guess as to what is coming.

[Hawkwin]

47 minutes ago, gblotter said:

For a co-ed week at summer camp - that would change the entire experience (and not in a good way)

How so, can you elaborate? The "entire experience?"

I think of the activities my son has had at Boy Scout camp and I can't think of a single thing about his experience that would have changed in any meaningful way.

Hiking, just the same.

Rappelling, just the same.

Campfire activities, just the same.

Religious service, just the same.

Kayaking, Totin' Chip, Woodcarving, Horsemanship, Wilderness Survival, Rifle Shooting, again just the same.

 

All camps are not made alike so perhaps the activities at your local camp are different but even after having gone to my camp's website and looking at every activity for every day, I don't see a single activity or experience that would have to be different (and not in a good way).

 

[EmberMike]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

For a co-ed week at summer camp - that would change the entire experience (and not in a good way).

I'd love to know specifically how "the entire experience" would change. Can you explain that?

[an_old_DC]

55 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMO the rush was/is the World Jamboree at Summit 2019.

And the need for money/membership

[an_old_DC]

50 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

They're leaving it to the locals to work out the specifics, and,  I expect there will be some trial and error.

Not really. Look at the girls in Cub Scouts soft launch: there is an intentionally vague framework that encourages pack leadership to do “what they think is best”

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, Cambridgeskip said:

As I've said more than once I would be very hesitant to land the losses in the UK in the 1990s and early 2000s at the door of going coed. There was simply too much else going on.

I was a scout till 1994 before moving to Venture scouts. I can tell you that the image of scouting in the UK at the time sucked. And it sucked becase it stagnated. Nobody was quitting because of girls joining. They were quitting because of the awful uniform which hadn't been updated since the 1960s. They left because the age ranges which worked in the 1960s no longer reflected natural peer groups. They left because HQ were utterly clueless about PR and thought that putting an elderly chief scout, major general (retired) whoever it was on TV in uniform and renewing his promise was the way to get kids through the door. Dear God it was awful. And I remember the hard time I got at school for being a scout. Trust me, none of it was remotely to do with girls. 

Things turned around because finally HQ got a grip and changed what needed to be changed. The change to scouts/explorers/network, the updated uniform, the full time PR staff at HQ that knew what they were doing.

Thanks 'Skip. That cuts both ways. Being unisex is not what caused your boys to leave your program, but going co-ed didn't bring those boys back.

Over here in the land of quick fixes, our P-R guys are trying to couch this move as a boon to membership (more family friendly, simplified for single parents, etc ...), when a real leader will admit that it is hazarding the loss of some seasoned leaders.