Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

[Gwaihir]

9 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I predict girls will find a way to join Troops affiliated with this Forum before the official date by National. 

A Scout is Trustworthy... Obedient... lol... naw, just foolin. 

[qwazse]

44 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

A mom attended a bor and was worrying about fast tracking and enablement?

Dude, where have you been? Mom's have held committee positions for a long time.

The mom of the best scout I ever knew sat on my BoRs.

[Jameson76]

36 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

North Korean Girls to Join Boy Scouts  of America in 2018!

 

Yeah, what was I thinking, you are right.

Odd that literally everything matches but their shoes...no doubt an oversight

[Col. Flagg]

30 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Dude, where have you been? Mom's have held committee positions for a long time.

The mom of the best scout I ever knew sat on my BoRs.

He may had misread what @Tampa Turtle wrote, thinking it was the mom of the Scout in the BOR. You know, the Scout's mom sitting in on her son's BOR...which would be highly odd.

[WisconsinMomma]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Monday night we had one mom post on FB that her son needed someone to sign off on some Second Class requirements. This is the same Scout who refuses sleep away from daddy. While he was working on requirements, Mom was lamenting the fact that he's been in the troop 10 months as is still only Tenderfoot (don't ask) and that he needs to be First Class by April. I had to talk to her about it is more important that he knows the skills and that a First Class Scout is not only capable of camping on his own, but is suppose to help others. Sadly I don't think she gets it.

Then again, maybe I am being a hypocrite. I've reminded middle son that he needs to get First Class by end of May so he can go on the AT trip he's been wanting to do since last summer. It's all on him.

When I first started, I did some reading about Boy Scout advancement, and all of the ins and outs.   This whole idea of first class in a year (and it's out there as an expectation) is generally unreasonable and a bunch of garbage.  But when I read online somewhere that Scouts should get first class in a year,  I worried.   Now I realize that that expectation is lame, and I am not as worried about my sons,  a 13 year old, second year, second class and an 11 year old tenderfoot (He's been in the troop 11 months, what's wrong with being Tenderfoot at 11 months??).  My oldest might make first class by his third year of summer camp or thereabouts.  One of our more experienced adults suggests that boys get something checked off once a week, but my boys have not kept that pace, they get maybe one or two things a month -- I'm not exactly sure how much they accomplish in a month.

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

12 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

He may had misread what @Tampa Turtle wrote, thinking it was the mom of the Scout in the BOR. You know, the Scout's mom sitting in on her son's BOR...which would be highly odd.

No. Another Mom. Sorry.

Mom of fast advancing Scouts does not help out but she does have 4 kids so I cut her some slack.

[Eagle94-A1]

The entire First Class, First Year premise looks only at one factor and membership retention: advancement. And IMHO since it came out when NSPs came out, it is based upon how LDS units do things, i.e. 11 year olds are a separate group. Every unit that is “successful” with NSPs has to treat them like Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Of course they will advance fast, but do they truly learn?

 

With traditional patrols, advancement is slower, but they learn, truly learn.

 

 

[Col. Flagg]

10 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

No. Another Mom. Sorry.

Mom of fast advancing Scouts does not help out but she does have 4 kids so I cut her some slack.

We've got a mom of trips...all with ADHD. I cut her so much slack...

[Tampa Turtle]

I keep hearing that "Family Scouting" is NOT synonymous with "Girls in Scouting".

But I just got a scouting email with a FAQ to questions about "Family Scouting". (https://scoutingwire.org/3-places-to-get-answers-to-your-questions-about-family-scouting/?utm_source=scoutingwire&utm_campaign=swvolunteer2142018&utm_medium=email&utm_content=A) and when I go to BSA Brand Center for photos under "Family Scouting" it is clearly based on 90% girls for Cub Scouts. 

Attached is a screen shot. (It is from https://scouting.webdamdb.com/bp/#/folder/3482216/)  They couldn't show boys and girls together or a family with a son and daughter? I know this is for recruiting...but really? Is it just me? I mean none of this stuff is probably cheap. I'd much rather see something like @Cambridgeskip's picture of his "co-ed" scouts.

 

 

[walk in the woods]

Winter 2018 Commissioner Newsletter says some about Family Scouting (although nothing really new):

Quote

Most likely the leadership for the new dens and packs we’ll be seeing shortly will be individuals new to Scouting. These leaders will certainly need support, and the leadership of existing packs may need additional support as well.  -Ellie Morrison (National Commissioner Service Chair)

Quote

Now, as we are ready to turn the corner into positive growth, as we are expanding our Explorer posts with positive growth for many consecutive months, and as we have begun to offer Scouting to girls in Cub Scout family packs,... -Charles Dahlquist (National Commissioner)

Quote

The program is open to girls currently in kindergarten through fourth grade and will follow the current Cub Scouting program and requirements for boys. It is subject to the previously announced criteria of all-boy packs, all-girl packs, and family Scouting packs with separate dens for girls and boys. Councils will determine which units will participate and councils may add additional criteria to determine eligibility.  ...

What role should commissioners play in the rollout? How the family Scouting program rolls out will vary from council to council and unit to unit. It is important for commissioners to contact their district commissioners and council commissioners to learn how they can assist. One thing is certain: Many leaders of these new dens and units will be adults with little or no background in Scouting. They will need more support than usual from their unit commissioners. Your dedicated service will make all the difference.

-Not directly attributed

 

[Tampa Turtle]

51 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Odd that literally everything matches but their shoes...no doubt an oversight

I wish you had not pointed that out, someone no doubt will be punished for it now.

[Jameson76]

1 minute ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I wish you had not pointed that out, someone no doubt will be punished for it now.

[EmberMike]

15 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Attached is a screen shot. (It is from https://scouting.webdamdb.com/bp/#/folder/3482216/)  They couldn't show boys and girls together or a family with a son and daughter? I know this is for recruiting...but really? Is it just me? I mean none of this stuff is probably cheap. I'd much rather see something like @Cambridgeskip's picture of his "co-ed" scouts.

 

It's in a folder called "Interim Family Scouting Materials." I don't think this is the final set of materials, just what has been produced so far. 

[cyphertext]

31 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

The entire First Class, First Year premise looks only at one factor and membership retention: advancement. And IMHO since it came out when NSPs came out, it is based upon how LDS units do things, i.e. 11 year olds are a separate group. Every unit that is “successful” with NSPs has to treat them like Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Of course they will advance fast, but do they truly learn?

 

With traditional patrols, advancement is slower, but they learn, truly learn.

 

 

I like the idea of NSPs... and how it was implemented in our troop.  Although I can see where you might say it is Cub Scoutish... maybe what Webelos should be.  We do have an ASM that is assigned to work with the first year scouts specifically, and once a month they have a first year meeting or outing to work on requirements.  But we also have a Troop Guide that is assigned as their patrol leader to teach them scouting skills on campouts.  When a boy in the group reaches First Class, he is made the Patrol Leader and the Troop Guide takes a step back.  He still helps and guides, but now that NSP has an actual Patrol Leader participating in PLC.

They do focus quite a bit on advancement, but the thought is that be getting them to First Class at around 1 yr, they have a bigger part in the troop and are more likely to stay with the troop.  So it is a retention based concept as well.  

[gblotter]

3 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

The entire First Class, First Year premise looks only at one factor and membership retention: advancement. And IMHO since it came out when NSPs came out, it is based upon how LDS units do things, i.e. 11 year olds are a separate group. Every unit that is “successful” with NSPs has to treat them like Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Of course they will advance fast, but do they truly learn?

With traditional patrols, advancement is slower, but they learn, truly learn.

3

As a former LDS New Scout Leader, I can confirm that these 11 year-old patrols do function very much like Webelos Dens, with lots of indoor and outdoor instruction. That first year is structured as a soft introduction into Boy Scouts. That is one reason why they are limited to just 3 nights of camping. Dads accompany sons on every campout during that first year (by design).

There may be other weaknesses of the model, but I do not necessarily agree that learning is compromised by this approach. It is an intensive year of skill building. A variety of resources are enlisted to teach these skills in a quality way. In our troop's New Scout program, only about half the Scouts make it to First Class during that first year. Corners are not cut. The boys who do make it to First Class by age 12 typically do a fair amount of skill mastery at home and then pass off requirements to their Scout leader. The son of our current New Scout Leader just turned 12 as a Tenderfoot. He obviously didn't give his own son a free pass.

Personal drive is the primary factor in who makes it to First Class by age 12. However, that milestone seems to determine whether a Scout ultimately reaches Eagle. If they slow-walk through the lower ranks, they typically never catch up by age 18 (and that's ok).