Eagle94-A1 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 17 hours ago, ghjim said: If the current youth membership stands at 2.7 million what has accounted for the decline since 1999? I can tell you for a fact that the 1999 figures were inflated. Does Ronnie Holmes and Greater Alabama Council ring a bell? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45573-2005Jan28.html Sadly, he was not the only one inflating membership. One of the reasons I quit being a DE was being pressured to inflate membership. The pressure was intense, and affecting my health and life. It got so bad, it was affecting the wife, who gave me the ultimatum: her or the job. Interesting thing was that once I left, several units I allowed to drop were recharted. Thank goodness I have kept a copy of ALL the paperwork I submitted, and didn't submit. That saved my job when I worked for national because my old boss tried to blame me for the membership issues. The records showed I gave him the dropped units. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said: I can tell you for a fact that the 1999 figures were inflated. Does Ronnie Holmes and Greater Alabama Council ring a bell? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45573-2005Jan28.html Sadly, he was not the only one inflating membership. One of the reasons I quit being a DE was being pressured to inflate membership. The pressure was intense, and affecting my health and life. It got so bad, it was affecting the wife, who gave me the ultimatum: her or the job. Interesting thing was that once I left, several units I allowed to drop were recharted. Thank goodness I have kept a copy of ALL the paperwork I submitted, and didn't submit. That saved my job when I worked for national because my old boss tried to blame me for the membership issues. The records showed I gave him the dropped units. This is exactly why BSA deflates the numbers later on in the year after the annual report. Council "wring out" their rolls at different times, so the real numbers never get reported until late in the calendar year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson76 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 18 hours ago, ghjim said: If the current youth membership stands at 2.7 million what has accounted for the decline since 1999? Lot of opinions on this. IMHO it is a lack of focus on core programs and building on what BSA does well. A successful Scouting program is not a "season" or a "class" that is audited. Hopefully scouts do not merely attend they get involved. Most of the paid scouters are not judged on program or activity by the units, it's all numbers and dollars There is a disconnect between the local successful units and what BSA Council and National perceives as what needs to be done. Too much adjusting of requirements, adding things, deleting things. It's all about the programs. A youth (gotta be inclusive) did not join the scouts to go to a city council meeting, record his situps, or chart his budget for 12 weeks. They joined to go have FUN and do things. BSA needs to stress this - Outdoor Programs. Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources. This is what sets BSA apart from being just another after school thing. Embrace and build on this, it's what we are (or were) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said: I will throw 2 cents in and say -- I think the skorts and socks are fabulous. Now, they may not be practical for camp wear, but they are modest, appropriate and good-looking for meeting wear, they give girls an opportunity NOT to look like the boys, and they make a great look for photographs. Yes, photographs, and we live in a Facebook - Instagram digital camera world where there will be many photos of girls in Cubs. Personally I was hoping for dusty purple shirts for the girls (LOL), but keeping the navy uniform and adding a skort is great, IMO. There's no harm, and sharp uniforms attract many children to Scouting. Thank you for sharing the CBS Sunday morning info, I will watch it. I wouldn't have an issue with unique items for girls in the long-term. My issue with it is that this seems entirely counter to what we heard throughout the years of the effort to get girls into Cub Scouts, including from people like me. I believed what I was told and heard, that girls just wanted the chance to be in the BSA, as-is. We were told that the program didn't need to change, that girls could do exactly what the boys were doing, they could sign up and put on the same uniform and go out and be scouts just like the boys. We went out and pushed that message, and I believe it still. And then the first thing we see when the girls are finally allowed in is a girl-specific uniform. It's not that the skirt is bad at all, just that the timing of it is unfortunate. It makes it really hard for supporters of girls in the BSA to defend our stance that nothing major would have to change to allow girls into the program. Even though a skirt doesn't chaneg the program, it's just fuel on the fire for those who oppose the change to say, "Look! Skirts! Things are changing! We told you so!" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 12:28 PM, EmberMike said: I wouldn't have an issue with unique items for girls in the long-term. My issue with it is that this seems entirely counter to what we heard throughout the years of the effort to get girls into Cub Scouts, including from people like me. I believed what I was told and heard, that girls just wanted the chance to be in the BSA, as-is. We were told that the program didn't need to change, that girls could do exactly what the boys were doing, they could sign up and put on the same uniform and go out and be scouts just like the boys. We went out and pushed that message, and I believe it still. And then the first thing we see when the girls are finally allowed in is a girl-specific uniform. It's not that the skirt is bad at all, just that the timing of it is unfortunate. It makes it really hard for supporters of girls in the BSA to defend our stance that nothing major would have to change to allow girls into the program. Even though a skirt doesn't chaneg the program, it's just fuel on the fire for those who oppose the change to say, "Look! Skirts! Things are changing! We told you so!" Your statement is predicated on the fact that those girls were told they MUST wear skorts. If they were given the option and they chose to wear skorts... I don't see how this affects your argument that nothing major would have to change? It does lend credence to the concept that girls and boys have interests in different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, Gwaihir said: Your statement is predicated on the fact that those girls were told they MUST wear skorts. If they were given the option and they chose to wear skorts... I don't see how this affects your argument that nothing major would have to change? It does lend credence to the concept that girls and boys have interests in different things. I have a hard time believing that 100% of the girls in that pack just happened to choose the exact same uniform configuration. I can't even get all of the kids in my Den to consistently wear a neckerchief slide as opposed to just tying the thing in a knot. And miraculously somehow this girls den/pack pulled that one off, too. A statistical impossibility if you ask me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, EmberMike said: I have a hard time believing that 100% of the girls in that pack just happened to choose the exact same uniform configuration. I can't even get all of the kids in my Den to consistently wear a neckerchief slide as opposed to just tying the thing in a knot. And miraculously somehow this girls den/pack pulled that one off, too. A statistical impossibility if you ask me. it is possible but it's certainly improbable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 36 minutes ago, EmberMike said: I have a hard time believing that 100% of the girls in that pack just happened to choose the exact same uniform configuration. I can't even get all of the kids in my Den to consistently wear a neckerchief slide as opposed to just tying the thing in a knot. And miraculously somehow this girls den/pack pulled that one off, too. A statistical impossibility if you ask me. It's obvious these photos were staged for PR purposes. Much of what happened in the National Geographic television series "Are you tougher than a Boy Scout" was obviously staged for PR purposes as well. I'm not sure why that would be surprising to anyone. Marketing is an important component in helping any corporate initiative succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I have no problem with the Skorts - as long as they allow boys to wear them if they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, gblotter said: It's obvious these photos were staged for PR purposes. Much of what happened in the National Geographic television series "Are you tougher than a Boy Scout" was obviously staged for PR purposes as well. I'm not sure why that would be surprising to anyone. Marketing is an important component in helping any corporate initiative succeed. What, you don't pack your official BSA marketing banners on all outings? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swilliams Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) On 2/4/2018 at 8:54 PM, NJCubScouter said: I think I have said this before, but I wish that the BSA, as its first decision after letting girls into Cub Scouts, had NOT issued a new article of clothing for the girl-Cubs that emphasizes differences between the genders. Why couldn’t they just let the girls wear the regular blue shorts and long pants? And if necessary, offer a girls’ version, the same thing the boys are wearing, just a different “cut.” I really hope that when the Girl Boy Scouts starts, they just let them wear the uniform pants or shorts and not have a green “skort.” Is there a “skort” for female Venturers? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. That was the very first thing I thought when our Scoutmaster posted that picture. Doesn't matter that there are shorts underneath. Very tone-deaf move. Edited to add: I wear the green canvas pants. (I'm female.) They're not great-fitting. I tried the micro-fiber, and while I prefer that fabric, there's not quite enough room across the hips. It's also weird to me that at 5'7" and 123 lbs. the pants that fit me best are a youth 14, but then they're too short. I'm also a fashion designer with lots of pattern-making experience. Wish they'd come consult me. My daughter tried on the Venturers pants this past weekend. Really not cut for females, either. Edited February 14, 2018 by swilliams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swilliams Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Someone at Council pointed out to me last week that there are some religions that don't allow girls to wear pants. I hadn't thought about that. Still, it would have been nice to see some of the girls in the pants. Of course, at the same time, the Cub Scout pants are so ill-fitting that I don't know anyone who wants them! My boys always just wore blue shorts or jeans. On the socks... my boys love their scout socks and want to wear them even when they're not in uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think those skorts are too short of those religions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Latin Scot Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, swilliams said: Someone at Council pointed out to me last week that there are some religions that don't allow girls to wear pants. I hadn't thought about that. Still, it would have been nice to see some of the girls in the pants. Of course, at the same time, the Cub Scout pants are so ill-fitting that I don't know anyone who wants them! My boys always just wore blue shorts or jeans. On the socks... my boys love their scout socks and want to wear them even when they're not in uniform. Everybody knows that the official socks are the plushiest, most delightful socks in the world, and that it's the ONE part of the uniform that's worth every penny of the cost. And this from a Californian who prefers to wear sandals whenever humanly possible! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swilliams Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said: I think those skorts are too short of those religions. I was told they come longer (like the unhemmed pants), and you have to make them the length you want. I haven't seen them in person, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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