The current moral panic is bad for males and females

[Eagle1993]

@Pselb

I guess I’m more worried about the next Jerry Sandusky or Larry Nassar.  Both were accused and their accusers were ignored for years.  

 

[Eagle94-A1]

In college I had a friend accused of sexual misconduct. While proven innocent, his reputation suffered greatly as he did have a stigma due to the accusation.

In Scouting, another friend was accused. Again investigation proved her innocence. But she was not allowed to be reinstated in the BSA.

Anyone remember the Duke lacross team. That hit close to home as I live in NC. 

Anyone remember "Mattress Girl" Emma Sulcowicz?

[cocomax]

I have a family member that was falsely accused 15 years ago and his life was destroyed, has not been able to get a job since then.

I worked at a science center where one of the office workers made false sexual harassment against  3 different men and bragged about making it all up, I quit before it happened to me.

I worked for Lowes as a shed builder and several times I had (married) women make very strong sexual advances while I was building sheds,  the idea of false accusations terrified me, I was relieved when I quit that job.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by cocomax

[David CO]

2 hours ago, Pselb said:

Isn't this the conclusion certain groups in our society wish?  All females as dominant?  

I don't think so. I haven't seen any great conspiracy by women to use false accusations to gain dominance over men. I think the vast majority of women are well intentioned and are attempting to find an adequate response to a real problem.

That said, I think most women are unaware of the number of false accusations that are made against good men. 

[cocomax]

Another great news story on the subject:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

I believe that the “believe all women” vision of feminism unintentionally fetishizes women. Women are no longer human and flawed. They are Truth personified. They are above reproach.  (NY TIMES)

[Eagle1993]

I guess my question to you is what do you want to see?  I want women to feel unpowered and report instances of sexual harassment and assault.  Those reports should be fully investigated and guilty individuals should lose their jobs and freedom, if appropriate.  Too many times women (and men) have been silent as we have seen over the last 3-4 months.  

[RememberSchiff]

8 minutes ago, cocomax said:

Another great news story on the subject:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

I believe that the “believe all women” vision of feminism unintentionally fetishizes women. Women are no longer human and flawed. They are Truth personified. They are above reproach.  (NY TIMES)

That article ends

What we owe all people, including women, is to listen to them and to respect them and to take them seriously. But we don’t owe anyone our unthinking belief.

“Trust but verify” may not have the same ring as “believe all women.” But it’s a far better policy.

Sounds fair.

Edited February 4, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff]

I hid another response  which seemed more paranoia.

@NJCubScouter , @Sentinel947 , @LeCastor

[cocomax]

This story is heart breaking, this young man spent 6 years in jail over false charges:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149462/Brian-Banks-One-time-football-star-rape-charge-dismissed-years-prison-accuser-contacts-Facebook-say-happened.html

 

 

[David CO]

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I guess my question to you is what do you want to see?  I want women to feel unpowered and report instances of sexual harassment and assault.  Those reports should be fully investigated and guilty individuals should lose their jobs and freedom, if appropriate.  Too many times women (and men) have been silent as we have seen over the last 3-4 months.  

I think we have already answered your question. We want all people to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

[NJCubScouter]

5 hours ago, Pselb said:

As a history teacher, I recall somewhere that our Founding Fathers rejected the British notion that one is guilty until proven innocent...

Actually, the presumption of innocence was the law in England at the time of the Revolution. Part of what the colonists were rebelling against was the fact that many of the rights enjoyed by those in Britain, including the presumption of innocence, were being denied in many parts of the colonies. So you are partly correct... from a certain point of view.

[David CO]

It also matters to me that "Though Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor" is a Commandment. That makes it a biggie in my way of thinking.

[TAHAWK]

The judge typically tells a jury that a trial is not a contest of skill but a search for the truth.  The entire process is very often a search for convictions, not the truth.  As such, it is very much a contest of skill - as much as medieval trial by combat.

For years the contest was uneven when wealthy defendants were the targets.  They could afford lawyers far more skilled than the prosecutors.  That changed some years ago with the monstrous oversupply of lawyers.  Any job became a "good job," and the People are much more competently represented - often well and ruthlessly represented.

The poor defendant was often - and is still often -- stuck with lame representation.  I was once waiting for a judge to squeeze in a civil pretrial during a murder trial.  The defendant's assigned counsel arrived and had to ask where to sit.  Neither did he know what his client even looked like - contact was made by the lawyer calling out the defendant's name in the courtroom and out in the hall.     The paging of clients was common at preliminary hearings, which can be important. 

[Pselb]

In many of these headline cases we have plenty of accusations and yet very little evidence.  A female's word against a male's.  Sorry, buddy, but female trumps your defense.  The accusation is often plenty enough to destroy a person's reputation, so no evidence is necessary.

[Eagle1993]

Let’s talk about some of the metoo “victims”

#1st tweet was on Harvey Weinstein by Ashley Judd (Oct 5)

Roy Price was taken out Oct 11... 

Larry Nassar Oct 18...

Kevin Spacy Oct 29...

Roy Moore Nov 9.... 

Louis C.K. Nov 10...

Matt Lauer Nov 29...

Garrison Keillor Nov 30... at first I thought perhaps this one was a reach, until MPR came out with a bit more info...

Russell Simmons Nov 30...

Al Franken Dec 7

Mario Batali Dec 11

Gary Goddard Dec 20..

Read about these.  Which men should be put back in their position?  What I see is man after man in positions of power sexually abuse, assault and harrass men and women for years and decades with no fall out.  

I’m sure there are some (I think the figure published is 2% but it’s probably higher) that have false acquisition.  The beginning of this thread was that metoo was bad for women and men.  I call BS.  Status quo is bad for good people.  Taking a stand against individuals who abuse their power is always a good thing.  

As scout leaders it should make us relook at and ensure we are enforcing YPT.  Larry Nassar was able to sexually abuse countless girls including Olympic athletes for years.  Girls parents believed the abuser instead of their own daughters.  No 1 on 1 contact must be strictly enforced.

In my home time in the 1980s a child accused a Catholic priest of rape.  A few days later it came out that he lied.  I remember my parents saying what a sick boy that kid was for lying.  Only he wasn’t... Years later that priest was found with another boy.

I don’t think now is the time for scout leaders to send messages that are being sent in this thread.  Many of the posts seem to be much more about judging the accusers than encouraging openness and getting to the truth.