The current moral panic is bad for males and females

[cocomax]

As the #metoo movement gets stronger and is destroying lives of men based on a single accusation, men are taking steps to protect themselves by not hiring women, avoiding women and using a system like BSA YPT at work.  If you do something that makes the wrong women uncomfortable in any way, it could be the end of your world was you know it.  Men are living in fear.

However, "Turning men and women into hostile opposing camps is not going to be good for either sex." (NYPOST)

I wonder how much of this has already worked its way into the BSA. 

Here is a news story on the growing problem: 

https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/a-male-backlash-against-metoo-is-brewing/

    

Edited February 4, 2018 by cocomax

[Back Pack]

I know many guys at college who won’t just hang out with girls anymore. At least not alone. And we won’t have just one girl hang out with.a group of guys either. I’d not hang out alone with a girl. Too many accusations going around. 

[Pselb]

I see it at school every day and it's getting worse.  Group dating is the norm for those who wish to stay out of trouble.  Teacher/student relationships have deteriorated as well.  One-on-one meetings in the teacher's office don't happen anymore and confidentiality is a thing of the past. The only time the office door gets shut is when you are not in the office. Communication is stilted and formal and "hanging out and/or having fun" is no longer a consideration.  One angry student and your career is over along with everything else you deem important.  If a student has an issue they are instructed to tell their parents and then have them contact the teacher.

[Eagle1993]

I haven’t seen any changes at my workplace; however, we have had a rigorous sexual harassment program along with a great omsbud system.  Over the last 20 years, I know of three people accused.  Two were fired, and rightly so.  One was exonerated with no impact to his career.  We still have one on one meetings with females, no issues.  It’s been really difficult, but I’ve managed to keep my pants on for all of my meetings with my female coworkers.  The general discussions at our workplace is the shock in how out of control some workplaces must have been to allow this behavior to continue as long as it did.  

 

[Pselb]

And maybe it's just today's society and as the sides get drawn, the old wounds from 30 years ago get dragged up and tossed into the ring to atone for any and all unforeseen arguments in the making. 

[TAHAWK]

1 hour ago, Pselb said:

I see it at school every day and it's getting worse.  Group dating is the norm for those who wish to stay out of trouble.  Teacher/student relationships have deteriorated as well.  One-on-one meetings in the teacher's office don't happen anymore and confidentiality is a thing of the past. The only time the office door gets shut is when you are not in the office. Communication is stilted and formal and "hanging out and/or having fun" is no longer a consideration.  One angry student and your career is over along with everything else you deem important.  If a student has an issue they are instructed to tell their parents and then have them contact the teacher.

Not an entirely new peoblem.  When I did my year as a "Teaching Assistant" (grader) in 1965-66, we were all issued a rubber door stop which was to be firmly driven under the edge of the open door before any conference with a female student  commenced in your office.  

[David CO]

In Victorian times, it was the girls who needed a chaperone. Now it's the guys.

[RememberSchiff]

There is a lot of real anger and hysteria in America. I think trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient,... scouts and Scouters are part of the solution.

My $0.02

 

[Pselb]

8 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Not an entirely new peoblem.  When I did my year as a "Teaching Assistant" (grader) in 1965-66, we were all issued a rubber door stop which was to be firmly driven under the edge of the open door before any conference with a female student  commenced in your office.  

That may be well and good for the 1960's, but in today's world in order to be safe, no conferences are held with a student without another teacher and/or parent present.,, male or female.  Your office is where you go to get away from students, not counsel them.  A rubber door stop defense is useless when you get sued. 

If there is a classroom disruption and a student needs to leave the class, a full written report is made.  No taking students out to the hallway to reprimand them.  If a student needs removal, the procedure is to notify the office, and have someone else escort them to the office.  It won't be much longer before the escort turns into escorts for their protection as well.

obviously, more time is spent on dealing with these kinds of issues and less time with actually teaching.  Burn-out is becoming a rather common occurrence.  Good teachers are hard to find and even more difficult to keep.

I would think that as this dynamic impacts other organizations, they too will feel the effects.  Face-to-face contact is becoming less frequent and it is most obvious between male and female,

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, Pselb said:

 

I would think that as this dynamic impacts other organizations, they too will feel the effects.  Face-to-face contact is becoming less frequent and it is most obvious between male and female,

What dynamic?  I understand the concern of false accusations but I haven’t see waves of men fired unjustifiedly.  I have seen bad men finally loosing their jobs and  freedom after years of ignoring their previous accusers.  

[EmberMike]

14 hours ago, cocomax said:

As the #metoo movement gets stronger and is destroying lives of men based on a single accusation...

How many innocent men have been caught up in this? Anyone know? I have yet to hear of one. 

I just wear a body camera at work to protect myself.  

Kidding of course. 

But on a serious note, if it's a concern for anyone in their workplace, maybe ask your employer to install cameras if they haven't already. Technology could pretty easily put an end to this, at a cost to employers that would surely be less than any possible lawsuit that arrises. 

Not hiring women is not a good solution. That will land you with a different kind of lawsuit.

Edited February 4, 2018 by EmberMike

[David CO]

53 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

How many innocent men have been caught up in this? Anyone know? I have yet to hear of one.

I don't think anyone knows. They don't keep statistics on this.

I have seen several teachers dismissed unjustly. I have also seen many teachers exonerated. Regardless of the result, all false accusations have a chilling effect on the teaching/coaching staff.

It also has an affect on hiring. More than half of the Catholic schools in my diocese have no male teachers on staff. They have 20 or more teachers, but not 1 man. The pastors and principals don't want to have to deal with the all of the trouble caused by false accusations. It is much easier to just hire an all female teaching staff.

I have had several false accusations made against me. I'm pretty careful, so I was able to prove my innocence in each case. Even so, it is not a fun experience.

Edited February 4, 2018 by David CO

[RememberSchiff]

I hid the last post as the paranoia was getting a little ridiculous.  Moderators will review.

@NJCubScouter , @Sentinel947 , @LeCastor

[Pselb]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

I don't think anyone knows. They don't keep statistics on this.

I have seen several teachers dismissed unjustly. I have also seen many teachers exonerated. Regardless of the result, all false accusations have a chilling effect on the teaching/coaching staff.

It also has an affect on hiring. More than half of the Catholic schools in my diocese have no male teachers on staff. They have 20 or more teachers, but not 1 man. The pastors and principals don't want to have to deal with the all of the trouble caused by false accusations. It is much easier to just hire an all female teaching staff.

I have had several false accusations made against me. I'm pretty careful, so I was able to prove my innocence in each case. Even so, it is not a fun experience.

Isn't this the conclusion certain groups in our society wish?  All females as dominant?  It may be an easy solution to the perceived problem, but is it just?  Not much equality to swing the pendulum all the way over to the other end of the arc.

[Pselb]

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

What dynamic?  I understand the concern of false accusations but I haven’t see waves of men fired unjustifiedly.  I have seen bad men finally loosing their jobs and  freedom after years of ignoring their previous accusers.  

And what percentage of men AND WOMEN are falsely accused that are deemed guilty until proven innocent.  As a history teacher, I recall somewhere that our Founding Fathers rejected the British notion that one is guilty until proven innocent, and if but one is truly innocent, the punishment is the loss of a life in a variety of different areas, their reputation, their ability to earn a living and a scarlet letter embossed on their life, kind of like a long and painful capital punishment.  I have no problem with genuine accusations and proof of guilt and subsequent punishment, equal to the crime.  But for the innocent?  Where's the justice?  The fear of guilty until proven innocent is what motivates a majority of those in many professions and volunteer activities.  The reason I don't take on a role in the BSA is because I get exposed to enough of this problem in everyday life, and I'm sure as a teacher I'm not the only one, the clergy, the medical professions, counseling, etc. all face the same issue.