Restricting ASM's

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Actually I think it's the C.O.R. that has the problem and had the committee vote on a new policy and then she presented it to the C.O. for approval. Now whether the C.O.R. represented both sides of the issue is another question.

 

I would think that somehwere somehow a rule was being broken it seems discriminatory. We'll just have present our side of at least or objections and see if there will be any reconsideration.

[Bob White]

Which rule would that be Ron?

[baschram645]

This sounds more like a power trip or ego trip on the part of the CC than anything else. I think she actually fears this woman and her credentials as a leader. If you have to cancel an outing or two put the onus on the CC that she will have to be the other woman on these outings!(Have them tent together). Cancel enough outings and I am sure that the CCs son will quit or want to and so will other boys. It is their vote (participation) that really counts. I am sure that as devious as the CC is, she will see the error of her ways.

 

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Bob,

I guess they are not breaking any rules persay. I'll gracefully accept whatever decision the C.O. decides whether they reconsider or not.

[Shell in WA- USA]

FOG, I'm not involved with GS leadership so I have no idea what their policies are. I do know of a couple fathers who are also involved with GS leadership in my area.

 

Also in BS, maybe I'm unusual, but I'm not necessarily looking for male role models in BS but rather for the reinforcement of high morals and faith-based values to my boys.

 

And I don't look to BSA as "Babysitters of America," therefore I can't expect the program to teach and reinforce this with my kids if I'm not also contributing to the program. It may not be directly involved with my boys but they get the "wave" effect.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Also in BS, maybe I'm unusual, but I'm not necessarily looking for male role models in BS but rather for the reinforcement of high morals and faith-based values to my boys."

 

Do you want your son(s) to have male role models at all?

 

 

[msnowman]

I am a female CM for my nephew's Pack. I have been raising him for 5 years and we have been in Scouts together for 4 of those 5 years. He is finishing his 1st year of Webelos (where I also function as assistant leader). I have already told him that I will not bridge over with him when he goes on to Boy Scouts. I have reassured him that for as long as he desires to be in Scouting, I will always make sure he has everything he needs, I just will not be part of Troop.

I see nothing wrong with women who are in positions of leadership in Boy Scouts going on an overnight, its just not for me, my idea of camping is having to use dial up instead of cable internet access. Male role models are very important in young men's lives. Nephew's father has little interest in spending time with his son, so Scouts is the only real source of men in his life. However, I also think its important for him to see that women and men are equals and deserve respect for the person that they are. However, limiting a woman's right (permission? Pick a better word) to camp with her Troop, if she is a registered leader, is wrong if the sole determining factor is gender. Keeping her from camping because she is disruptive of the Boy Led ideals or otherwise undermines the purpose of the campout? Fair enough, if a male leader with the undesirable behavior is also kept from camping. Boy Scout campouts (if I understand correctly) are for BOYS to learn and enjoy on their way to becoming MEN, not to be mothered, fathered, nagged, and babied to death.

 

[Shell in WA- USA]

Of course I want them to have male role models. I was just saying that that wasn't the "first" reason why I have my boys in Scouting. And there are a couple men in Scouting that I think fit that role very nicely for my boys. But for the most part, the "men" of the troop are their own son's fathers first, leaders second. Only a couple take the time to work with the troop in general. But in our case, the best male role models my boys have are in our church and through Jesus Christ.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

" But for the most part, the "men" of the troop are their own son's fathers first, leaders second."

 

When I'm wearing my official BSA Expedition hat, I am no longer my son's father, I'm a Scouter. Well, most of the time with the exception of when a Scout who lives in my house released my parking brake and let my car roll across the parking lot.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Update..

After speaking with the CC Monday I she wants this rule in place for the following two reasons.

1. Scouts should go on outings with other men not women, they should be able to fart & burp w/o worrying about what a woman might say.

 

2. "I dont want rumours to start, I personally know of a situation in which the S.M.(male) had an affair with an ASM(female)at the same time her husband was also an ASM (they were also personal friends of mine)

 

I overheard the C.O.R. state at last nights troop meeting "It's for her protection only"

 

The committee members have agreed to listen to everyones concern and the C.O. has also been invited.

 

 

[NeilLup]

With respect to your CC:

 

Number 1 is so much horse poo. The point of the law says "A Scout is Courteous" not "A Scout is Courteous unless, of course, it is an all male group." If there is a problem with what this female ASM might say, then that conversation should occur with her and ensure that she is comfortable with not making the Scouts uncomfortable. At the same time there are certain standards of courtesy. I don't remember anywhere in the "How to be a Guy" handbook which says that you get to burp and break wind whenever you want. The boys can do that as much as they want with no adults present.

 

2) This is so much horse poo also. I know a CC who absconded with funds. Does this mean that no CC should be trusted with funds? I know an SM who abused children. Does that mean no SM should be trusted with children? If you don't trust the woman's morals, then she shouldn't be an ASM. If you don't trust the morals of the male SM and ASMs, then they shouldn't be leaders. But setting an example for the boys that males are so randy and so lascivious that they can't be trusted on a camping trip (or that females are) is setting an extremely poor example and communicating most unfortunate information about how adults behave.

 

A Scout Troop can be and, in my opinion, should be an example of how adult men and women work together as leaders. Neither pretends to be the other and both work together. We are training our youth to be leaders 20, 30 and 40 years in the future and THIS IS HOW SOCIETY WILL BE.

 

It would seem that your CC has very strong feelings on gender roles. She seems to want to be training the boys for America in the 1950s. This is not doing the boys any favors and, arguably, is failing in your Troop's duty to train boys for the future they will face.

[Shell in WA- USA]

Interesting that your CC is a "she" and has this low opinion of how adults behave. Has SHE had her training?

 

And most of your last message sounds like great excuses for the policy she wants to set in motion. Since when was Burbs and Such written into the Scout law? I thought polite, courteous, and the like was the behaviors we were after.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

No, the committee has not gone thru training for their positions (Troop Committee Challenge, and I beleive their is another course which escapes me New Leader Fundamentals?) but I think the later is optional

[Shell in WA- USA]

Well, that would explain the lack of knowledge in the program. Perhaps if they won't go to training, you could bring the training to your unit. Yes, New Leader Essensials are needed as well as Troop Committee training.

[Fat Old Guy]

NeilLup, I have my "Guide to Being a Guy" right here and in chapter 6, "Bodily Functions," it states that belching and farting should be avoided in business situations or if women are present. It goes on that the most appropriate times and places for unrestrained belching and farting while watching any sporting event on TV except for figure skating or while sitting around a campfire unless wives, mothers or girlfriends (anyone's wife, mother or girlfriend) are present at either type of event.