Camping vs. Sleeping in a Cabin

[Tampa Turtle]

48 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@Jameson76It's at the Scoutmaster's discretion (or whoever is delegated to approve by the SM), but I think the intent is to have the Scouts gain skills by practicing putting up and taking down at least one type of shelter (tents, improvised shelters, snow caves, etc.).  I'm not currently a SM, but I would count a hammock + rain fly.  (I like Tampa Turtle 's "elevated tent" concept!  )  I would also recommend / encourage that they try different types of shelters when possible (and where it makes sense).

I try to set a good example by varying it up. I've done the tarp thing a couple times, cowboy camping, bivy sacking, making a lean-to just to mix it up. I usually get a scout or two ask some questions and check it out. I will say its good to practice something new BEFORE the campout.

Hammock camping is a whole new world of fiddly.

[Thunderbird]

@Tampa Turtle What is "cowboy camping"? 

[an_old_DC]

9 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@Tampa Turtle What is "cowboy camping"? 

I am guessing the same as "coyote camping." That's where you are on the trail all day or building trail all day, drop your pack, lie down and sleep. No tent, no tarp, no sleeping bag: just sleep on the ground. That's how OA Ordeals were back in the day as well--lie down in your clothes and go to sleep. Maybe use your boots for a pillow.

Edited January 23, 2018 by an_old_DC

[Tampa Turtle]

8 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

@Tampa Turtle What is "cowboy camping"? 

Just a blanket, though I might want to wrap a poncho around it. Best way to see stars at night. And see if it rains suddenly.

[an_old_DC]

Cowboy is a step up from Coyote camping. Although I am too old for either anymore, and need a foam pad.

Edited January 23, 2018 by an_old_DC

[perdidochas]

4 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

We count Hammocks as equal to tent camping if it has a tarp and they sleep in it overnight. I like to think of them as 'elevated tents'.

I would count hammocks without a tarp as counting as "camping beneath the stars."  That said, hammocks with tarps should definitely be considered as at least equal to sleeping in a tent. The process to set up a tarp/hammock is a bit more complex than setting up most tents.  

[perdidochas]

3 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I try to set a good example by varying it up. I've done the tarp thing a couple times, cowboy camping, bivy sacking, making a lean-to just to mix it up. I usually get a scout or two ask some questions and check it out. I will say its good to practice something new BEFORE the campout.

Hammock camping is a whole new world of fiddly.

Between the leaders and the older scouts, we did the same, my oldest being the most varied camper in the troop.  I've seen him in cabin tents, in what I call a coffin style backpacking tent, a Japanese pop-up, a tarp on the ground, just the ground, on top of a picnic table, and hammock with or without tarp.  Most of the OA boys are that way. Most of our leaders use two-four man tents (some conventional, some backpacking) or sleep on the ground if the weather is dry. I very rarely tent camp, I usually hammock/tarp, and I don't cowboy camp or tarp camp.  

[DuctTape]

In the older literature a tarp was referred to as a tent. In present day we make a distinction between them based in bugnets, floors, zippers or whatever. The gi pup tent, is a floorless, zipperless, tarp. My official bsa scout tent is a square piece canvas. Pitching that to sleep under whether on the ground, a stretcher-bed (the old term for cot) or a hammock for certain satisfies the requirement; tarp=tent. Lastly I have heard BP favored the hammock as his personal choice.

[TAHAWK]

"All each of the cabins had was lights, electrical outlet and cots. "

 

[blw2]

Anytime you have written rules it seems, you have the opportunity to play semantics.  

Personally, i think that with the exception of a purpose to practice and learn shelter building/tent pitching.... that cowboy camping is about the most pure.  I've never heard the term coyote camping before.  To me, cowboy camping is bedroll on the ground under the stars.  Bedroll could be almost anything....bag and pad, blanket, etc....just open air under the stars

And then the semantics.... some of those basic Appalachian trail type shelters aren't really so far off from that in my mind.... actually I'd think of it more like under a tarp.  Still very basic and not nearly so "indoor" as a tent.

[Tampa Turtle]

3 hours ago, blw2 said:

Anytime you have written rules it seems, you have the opportunity to play semantics.  

Personally, i think that with the exception of a purpose to practice and learn shelter building/tent pitching.... that cowboy camping is about the most pure.  I've never heard the term coyote camping before.  To me, cowboy camping is bedroll on the ground under the stars.  Bedroll could be almost anything....bag and pad, blanket, etc....just open air under the stars

And then the semantics.... some of those basic Appalachian trail type shelters aren't really so far off from that in my mind.... actually I'd think of it more like under a tarp.  Still very basic and not nearly so "indoor" as a tent.

Gets harder and harder to get folks out of their comfort zone. I think it is a disservice to boys not to teach them how to rig up some basic shelter and that they are not gonna die if they spend a whole night in it. My first time I made a simple 'tube tent' made of a walmart blue tarp and some old rope between two trees at my first Boy Scout campout (I had no time to get a new tent...I gave it to my new scout son)....I was surprised how warm it was and it got down to 34 that night. I also found a few mice that decided to come and share my body heat. I tried to shoo them away but gave up, put on my eyeglasses so they wouldn't eat my eye balls while I slept, and settled down to an uneasy 'I'll stay over here and you stay over there' detente. 

Those open AT shelters aint no picnic. What you save in not carrying a tent you pay for in mice, snoring, and some hard, hard boards. 

[JasonG172]

I have to agree on this camping in a cabin isn't camping

[an_old_DC]

When I was SM I would not count cabin camping nights for Camping MB or OA eligibility, and I made sure the Scouts all understood well in advance. 

[Bloop]

Maybe I'm missing the heart of this question. But why would a cabin trip need to "count" to be valuable? Have you seen it "counting" in the forums or only mentioned as a trip that happened.

Huddling together in a cold smelly cabin is hugely rewarding in building community in troop and patrol. It certainly "counts" for "being active" for unit. 

Logistically it's harder to implement in BSA than for girls in GS or AHG and thus it's rare for my BSA troop. But it's wonderful for when they're losing their sense of belonging. 

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

I will not count cabin-camping nor lock-ins (such as sleeping in the Church) as camping. Many enemies I have made - no sleep I have lost. That goes for fathers and sons sleeping in cars wanting OA camping nights. No sir. No how. 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by RememberSchiff
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