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[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, FireStone said:

Was there a time when neckerchief-over-the-collar was the rule? Maybe back when neckers were larger and thus the size made under-collar more difficult? 

I kind of wish we went back to the larger size neckers. And wore them more without the uniform, like a lot of non-US orgs do. We had a boy at camp recently wearing his neckerchief over a t-shirt. I'm keeping hope alive that maybe this could catch on.

 

No, the neckerchief over the collar was never authorized.And it was not until 1972's Improved Scouting Program that the neckerchief could be worn under an open collar, or the troop could vote for none at all. We are the only country that has scouts not wearing a neckerchief.

[The Latin Scot]

Actually it was! I am looking at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions of the Handbook which I have in front of me right now (it's good to have a solid library), and in the uniform illustrations, all of them have uniform diagrams featuring the neckerchief being worn over the collar. In fact, let's not overlook the fact that on the very cover of the 3rd edition, there is an illustration of a Scout in profile - with the neckerchief over the collar! And just about every early painting by Norman Rockwell shows Scouts wearing the neckers old school style - with the neckerchief over the collar. And with all due respect, they are pretty darn authoritative if you ask me. Rockwell was a stickler for accuracy and his paintings almost never deviate from the proper way to wear the uniform at the time of their execution, and during his long tenure as Chief Scout Executive James E. West demanded complete uniform accuracy in all offcial BSA illustrations and publications. So, yes, it was not only authorized, but in fact it was the norm to wear the necker over the collar for many, many years. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, The Latin Scot said:

Actually it was! I am looking at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions of the Handbook which I have in front of me right now (it's good to have a solid library), and in the uniform illustrations, all of them have uniform diagrams featuring the neckerchief being worn over the collar. 

While the handbooks are authoritative, just like today BSA publishes additional literature to clarify and expand upon the handbooks. By any chance do you have a copy of the 1927 Scouting with a Neckerchief?" I ask because I do not have a copy. Closest I can find is a modern document with an except from the  SwaN stating a necker is worn over a tucked under collar. That si what I am basing my info on. But  in trying to find a pdf  or scan of the original 1927 document, I found another source saying over the collar.

Now I do know BSA made collarless shirts for Scouts. I have a couple and it's mentioned in my 4th ed. SMHB. SMs had the option os going with a collarless shirt and necker, a collared shirt with a tie, or collared shirt without a tie.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Eagle94-A1

[The Latin Scot]

I don't have a copy of Scouting with a Neckerchief, although I know the item you are referring to. I haven't seen a copy in print but only know it from multiple references online. I would imagine somebody here would have it, right? Anybody?  In any case, they didn't have as much published supplementary material in the early days as they have now, when we are practically drowning in new material being published almost monthly.

As for collarless shirts, yes I have seen many, many examples of those. But for certain, in the very latest Guide to Awards and Insignia, the official policy states on page 13 under "Special Regulations:" The unit has a choice of wearing the neckerchief over the collar (with the collar tucked in) or under the collar. So at the very least, as of the past few years both options are 100% authorized by the BSA.

[Eagle94-A1]

9 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

:" The unit has a choice of wearing the neckerchief over the collar (with the collar tucked in) or under the collar. So at the very least, as of the past few years both options are 100% authorized by the BSA.

Yes, both options, as well as not wearing a necker at all, have been around since 1972. When I was overseas, many Scouts were surprised we had the option to not wearing a necker. The Scouter from Croatia told me that the only mandatory uniform item was a necker, and she had sponsor pay for an official uniform shirt so she could participate in the exchange program. This was in the mid 1990s in the middle of the Balkans War, and Scouting was taking off as best it could under the circumstances there.

[Cambridgeskip]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes, both options, as well as not wearing a necker at all, have been around since 1972. When I was overseas, many Scouts were surprised we had the option to not wearing a necker. The Scouter from Croatia told me that the only mandatory uniform item was a necker, and she had sponsor pay for an official uniform shirt so she could participate in the exchange program. This was in the mid 1990s in the middle of the Balkans War, and Scouting was taking off as best it could under the circumstances there.

Very true, this side of the pond the necker is very much what says "scout". Typically on camp we don't wear full uniform except for formal moments except for the necker which we normally wear all the time. Typically worn over the collar (if what we're wearing has a collar) but I don't think we have a specific rule about it. Nearest we have is that the official badge positioning diagrams show it as over.

[CalicoPenn]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 10:01 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

Per the 2015 Guide to Awards and Insignia

The unit has a choice of
wearing the neckerchief over
the collar (with the collar
tucked in) or under the collar.

Good to know - and I stand corrected

[Hawkwin]

Boy did I ever derail this thread.

Back on topic, my daughter earned her Bobcat last night.

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

Back on topic, my daughter earned her Bobcat last night.

Congratulations!  Is she a Tiger?

[Hawkwin]

Webelos, but of course she has to earn her Bobcat before she can do anything else.

[NJCubScouter]

20 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Webelos, but of course she has to earn her Bobcat before she can do anything else.

Yes, that is one of the things that has NOT changed since those ancient days when I was a Cub Scout.

[RememberSchiff]

Congratulations  @Hawkwin .

I guess it's up to me to ask the politically incorrect question. Spin or no-spin? Or do girl Bobcats just cartwheel and save their Dads' backs?

Edited March 6, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[Hawkwin]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Congratulations  @Hawkwin .

I guess it's up to me to ask the politically incorrect question. Spin or no-spin? Or do girl Bobcats just cartwheel and save their Dads' backs?

Neither as of yet. She earned it but was not presented it.

[ScoutWithNecker]

I also love neckerchiefs and wish that more troops would bring them back, especially now that they come in a larger size. It always seemed to me that the neckerchief is the most characteristic and recognizable element of the scout uniform.