Buzzfeed - CSE Surbaugh - Girls - Scouter.com

[gblotter]

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

For most of my youth as a Boy Scout, my shirt had no collar, and when I became an adult leader (with a collared shirt) I always opted for a bolo tie, since I absolutely hate wearing a neckerchief.

Me too.

I wear a bolo tie - partly to set myself apart as Scoutmaster but mostly because I hate neckerchiefs.

I would be fine if our troop abandoned the neckerchief altogether, but the boys really seem to like it.

[Treflienne]

4 hours ago, gblotter said:

5 hours ago, DuctTape said:

In the end it is up to the local unit to provide a robust program.

Local units are the face of Scouting and the boots on the ground to make any program work. But local units can do only so much to rescue National from their own bumbling mistakes (then and now).

Same issue in GSUSA.  

There are some GSUSA folks who think that the GSUSA national organization has long made too many poor decisions about program materials and program direction.  Now that another choice (BSA) is becoming available, some of these folk may turn up in BSA as refugees of a sort.  I have no idea how many.

My pet theory is that part of the problem for GSUSA is that GSUSA national headquarters is located in New York City. (Not a good spot for outdoors-loving people.)  At least BSA headquarters is in Texas, not in the middle of New York City.

[Treflienne]

On 2/28/2018 at 4:20 PM, Tampa Turtle said:

Over heard several scouter-committee moms who are also GSUSA leaders say that they are planning to bring their daughters over (and some friends) next year to our Troop. (The exact words used were "I do not care what a few people say we are going to STORM this Troop." (Her emphasis, not mine) Also "If they say we need two female scout leaders we can do it on paper none of us have to go camping or anything."  Two said they were going to start the beginning of next school year and not wait until 2019 because what is the point.

I was sorry to hear about Tampa Turtle's experience.  I would have expected better behaviour.  Even though GSUSA dropped "courteous" from the Girl Scout Law when it was revised in 1972.

 

[JustAScoutMom]

scouter-committee moms do not run the troop alone.  I'm sure they will realize the error of their ways and were half-joking/half-wishing.

[Treflienne]

From my point of view as a parent of a girl, the ideal would be for my daughter to join a well-established, long-running, girls-only troop which has long experience using the BSA program.  Unfortunately such troops do not exist now, and will not exist in 2019, though they might possibly exist in ten years' time.

For I do see benefits to a single-sex enviroment, for both the boys and the girls, especially for the middle school grades, and especially for kids who attend coed schools.  But a well-functioning coed group might be better than a poorly-functioning single-sex group.

So that raises the question: how to implement the BSA4G program for girls, so that they have a better experience than they do now, and so that it does not mess things up for the boys?

Is it better to start with a small, just-getting-off-the-ground girls-only troop, hoping to eventually build it up?  (As a prospective future volunteer, that seems daunting.) Or is it better to start with what is functionally a girls' patrol in an existing troop?  And if so, how do to it in such a way so that the current boy scouts and scoutmasters are happy with the situation?

I would appreciate any comments you have on what plans are being discussed in your local areas, and whether you think they are good or bad plans, and why.

[Tampa Turtle]

1 minute ago, Treflienne said:

I was sorry to hear about Tampa Turtle's experience.  I would have expected better behaviour.  Even though GSUSA dropped "courteous" from the Girl Scout Law when it was revised in 1972.

 

I know these ladies and think they are better than this. They may have just been talking smack. We shall see...we are looking over a huge turnover in adult leadership due to boys aging out and BSA policy differences.

[oldbuzzard]

1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

My pet theory is that part of the problem for GSUSA is that GSUSA national headquarters is located in New York City. (Not a good spot for outdoors-loving people.)  At least BSA headquarters is in Texas, not in the middle of New York City.

And yet the in many ways the peak of American Scouting was in the pre-1954 days when BSA was in New York City. Hillcourt wrote many of his classic books in NY and later in NJ. BSA didn't move to TX until '78. I think your geographical determinism is too simplistic.

[The Latin Scot]

8 hours ago, gblotter said:

Me too.

I wear a bolo tie - partly to set myself apart as Scoutmaster but mostly because I hate neckerchiefs.

I would be fine if our troop abandoned the neckerchief altogether, but the boys really seem to like it.

I LOVE neckerchiefs! They add such a classic feel to the uniform, not to mention their little splash of color does a lot to brighten up the earth tones of the rest of its items. I admit I am starting to amass quite a little collection of neckers, all for different occassion - I have my Cub Scout Leader blue, and my Webelos plaid, not to mention the white NESA necker I just got a from a boy's parents to wear at his coming Eagle Court of Honor. I can easily see myself ending up with a whole plethora of colors to choose from; I love colors, and the neckerchief is the one part of the uniform where you can really add a bit of flair! Especially for somebody like me who otherwise tries to be an absolute stickler for proper uniforming, lol.

[gblotter]

6 hours ago, Treflienne said:

Or is it better to start with what is functionally a girls' patrol in an existing troop?

In theory, that option will not exist for Girl Patrols in Boy Scout Troops. It is an option for Girl Dens in Cub Scout Packs.

[Eagle94-A1]

52 minutes ago, gblotter said:

In theory, that option will not exist for Girl Patrols in Boy Scout Troops. It is an option for Girl Dens in Cub Scout Packs.

 

"Always in motion, the future is."  Master Yoda

 

One national level volunteer has stated on FB that National is now looking at coed troops, but segregated patrols. And one employee stated that the Scout program is still being worked on and it may not be ready until late 2019 . When I commented about how Cubs can cross over as early as December 1 2018, his reponse was that they could stay in the pack and work on Activity Badges until the program is set up.

[Eagle1993]

5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

"Always in motion, the future is."  Master Yoda

 

One national level volunteer has stated on FB that National is now looking at coed troops, but segregated patrols. And one employee stated that the Scout program is still being worked on and it may not be ready until late 2019 . When I commented about how Cubs can cross over as early as December 1 2018, his reponse was that they could stay in the pack and work on Activity Badges until the program is set up.

I’ve now heard from several sources the plan is to vote on the proposed program for girls during the May national meeting.  We should know the answer in June.

[HelpfulTracks]

12 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

No rules on slides - a Scout can use whatever they want as a slide as long as it is acceptable to their unit.

The neckerchief should be worn under the collar.  I know that folks like to debate that point but I can point to official BSA documents to back-up my statement.  Look at the BSA issued uniform inspection sheets.  In every case, the example model of proper uniform wear shows the neckerchief being worn under the collar.

Per the 2015 Guide to Awards and Insignia

The unit has a choice of
wearing the neckerchief over
the collar (with the collar
tucked in) or under the collar.

[HelpfulTracks]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One national level volunteer has stated on FB that National is now looking at coed troops, but segregated patrols. And one employee stated that the Scout program is still being worked on and it may not be ready until late 2019 . When I commented about how Cubs can cross over as early as December 1 2018, his reponse was that they could stay in the pack and work on Activity Badges until the program is set up.

4

Would you mind providing a link to that?

[Thunderbird]

9 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Per the 2015 Guide to Awards and Insignia

The unit has a choice of
wearing the neckerchief over
the collar (with the collar
tucked in) or under the collar.

It also says this in the Boy Scout Handbook (2016) on page 21.

[The Latin Scot]

56 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Per the 2015 Guide to Awards and Insignia

The unit has a choice of
wearing the neckerchief over
the collar (with the collar
tucked in) or under the collar.

This is absolutely correct; in fact, for many decades Scouts were supposed to wear the neckerchief over the collar with the collar tucked under. Allowing them to tuck the necker under is the more recent option, but as @HelpfulTracks has pointed out, both are entirely permitted.