Buzzfeed - CSE Surbaugh - Girls - Scouter.com

[EmberMike]

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

(a) What is the unsustainable membership point? 500,000? Is there logic behind that number?

 

I threw that out as a mostly random number, with maybe the slight logic behind it being that it's the number at which I would guess it becomes impossible for National to maintain their operations in the existing structure. 

 

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

(b) Before you hit that 'collapse' number is there a 'tipping point' number before that where other weirdness happens?

 

2 million, and it's already happening. They just cut pensions. Pay cuts and job cuts will follow. 

 

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Can you have a traditional program that is smaller and sustainable? I think so.

 

Absolutely. But the governing body of the organization will have to be completely re-thought. It can't be this big corporate operation anymore. I don't think 100% volunteer-run is sustainable, if you want good people to run the show they need to be able to devote themselves to it and that takes a lot of time. But we could do it with far fewer salaried employees and much more modest salaries for top executives. 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by EmberMike

[Jameson76]

26 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

@Jameson76 "There have been other cheating scandals (Learning for Life is the latest" ??? Did I miss something?

This is the Scouting program for urban youth, at schools, etc.  

Learning for Life (LFL) is a United States school and work-site based youth program that is a subsidiary of the Boy Scouts of America. It utilizes programs designed for schools and community-based organizations that are designed to prepare youth for the complexities of contemporary society and to enhance their self-confidence, motivation, and self-esteem, and for careers.

Learning for Life is not considered a traditional Scouting program; it does not use the Scout Promise, Scout Law, uniforms or insignia of traditional Scouting. All Learning for Life programs are open to youth and adults without restriction based on gender, residence, religion, sexual orientation, or other considerations, other than minimum age requirements. Some Explorer posts may require background checks and satisfactory school transcripts as conditions of membership.

There were many issues with "Scouts" being registered.  As you can see the membership dropped 36% from 2010 - 2014 as these issues were revealed.

Youth membership
Year	2010	2011	2012	2013	2014
Exploring	113,180	112,783	116,584	114,894	110,853
Learning for Life	664,063	511,359	475,280	418,484	422,139

[ianwilkins]

1 hour ago, EmberMike said:

Absolutely. But the governing body of the organization will have to be completely re-thought. It can't be this big corporate operation anymore. I don't think 100% volunteer-run is sustainable, if you want good people to run the show they need to be able to devote themselves to it and that takes a lot of time. But we could do it with far fewer salaried employees and much more modest salaries for top executives. 

 

FYI, and out of interest...UK HQ directly employ about 300 people full time for about 450,000 young people. Though counties also employ a few people, we have at least one admin person, and staff to run campsites, in our County that's 13,500 young people and 3,500 volunteers, and about 3 employees, excluding campsite staff. UK wide volunteers, there's about 100,000 of us. Sometimes it's a bit creaky, and things don't happen as fast as an employee would get them done but...we muddle through.

 

[Col. Flagg]

Reading the 2016 annual report about income, liabilities and the audit notes are, indeed, interesting. As are the notes from page 17 on the three most important issues facing national and it's finances as of this report.

[Tampa Turtle]

10 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Reading the 2016 annual report about income, liabilities and the audit notes are, indeed, interesting. As are the notes from page 17 on the three most important issues facing national and it's finances as of this report.

I must have missed it. Interesting that 75% =/- of BSA's physical assets are tied up in the Summit. *gulp*

[Col. Flagg]

25 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I must have missed it. Interesting that 75% =/- of BSA's physical assets are tied up in the Summit. *gulp*

Yup. That and the hold back for liability coverage. Explains the increase in fees a great deal. Little having to do with delivering the program to kids; lots to do with CYA from over-investment in The Summit, under-collection of promised funds. Their liquidity is a joke. Looking at the revenue streams makes one wonder exactly how long they can keep this up. They need a serious revenue injection that doesn't come with a bunch of increased liability. Increasing membership is NOT that stream.

[Eagle1993]

Interesting follow up to this article.  The www.scouting.org website recently changes Boy Scouting from "Boys" 11 - 17 years old to "Youth" 11 - 17 years old.  It also sates 

"This is the traditional Scouting experience for youth in the fifth grade through high school. Service, community engagement and leadership development become increasingly important parts of the program as youth lead their own activities and work their way toward earning Scouting’s highest rank, Eagle Scout."

https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/

Emphasis was added by me.  This aligns to the changes they made to the Cub Scouting description before offering girl dens.  

If you click on Join you can see the prior description that Boy Scouting is for "Boys" 11-17 years old.

I think there is a lot of smoke here that BSA4G will be nearly identical to the Cub Scout implementation.  Time will tell...

 

[Tampa Turtle]

42 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Interesting follow up to this article.  The www.scouting.org website recently changes Boy Scouting from "Boys" 11 - 17 years old to "Youth" 11 - 17 years old.  It also sates 

"This is the traditional Scouting experience for youth in the fifth grade through high school. Service, community engagement and leadership development become increasingly important parts of the program as youth lead their own activities and work their way toward earning Scouting’s highest rank, Eagle Scout."

https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/

Emphasis was added by me.  This aligns to the changes they made to the Cub Scouting description before offering girl dens.  

If you click on Join you can see the prior description that Boy Scouting is for "Boys" 11-17 years old.

I think there is a lot of smoke here that BSA4G will be nearly identical to the Cub Scout implementation.  Time will tell...

 

Well they are going to have to make those changes at some point. Interesting that they used the words 'coed' for venturing, etc but not Boy Scouts. I do not think, despite the 'Brand Value' the "Boy" is going to stay long in "Boy Scouting" much longer. Just looks weird.

[Eagle1993]

They also use “youth” for Cub Scouts. I think they are emphasizing separate dens and that is why they are not “coed”.  

When they initially announced the change last year then emphasized that there would be a new program for girls 11-17 (it wouldn’t be Boy Scouts).  As they now updated Boy Scouts to youth it makes me think the Buzzfeed article is correct and they plan to allow girls to join Boy Scout Troops.  

I tend to agree the word “Boy” will be removed or replaced eventually.   

[Eagle94-A1]

6 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

 

"This is the traditional Scouting experience for youth in the fifth grade through high school. Service, community engagement and leadership development become increasingly important parts of the program as youth lead their own activities and work their way toward earning Scouting’s highest rank, Eagle Scout."

Hope they change the word children to youth on the applications now when referring to Boy Scouts.

[JustAScoutMom]

If you look for a specific packs, the results now show whether they are:

     Dens for Boys or Girls

     Boy Pack

Example is Portland area. So, obviously, many COs have already committed (at least initially) to the affiliation that they wish to sponsor.  Now, will there be enough interest for an all-girls pack?  Doubtful.  Girls have less issue with being near boys, while boys sometimes don't want to be near girls.

https://beascout.scouting.org/BeAScoutMap.aspx

 

[JustAScoutMom]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 2:26 PM, Eagle1993 said:

I tend to agree the word “Boy” will be removed or replaced eventually.   

Agree....besides, I've always thought "youth" represent more boys than girls, even though the term is considered genderless.  I suppose I keep hearing in my head John Pesci saying "the two yoots" when referring to two 18-20 year old boys  

[walk in the woods]

54 minutes ago, JustAScoutMom said:

If you look for a specific packs, the results now show whether they are:

     Dens for Boys or Girls

     Boy Pack

Example is Portland area. So, obviously, many COs have already committed (at least initially) to the affiliation that they wish to sponsor.  Now, will there be enough interest for an all-girls pack?  Doubtful.  Girls have less issue with being near boys, while boys sometimes don't want to be near girls.

https://beascout.scouting.org/BeAScoutMap.aspx

 

All-girl packs don't exist yet.  The early adopters were Boy Packs that agreed to take girls now.  We shouldn't see Girl Packs until fall based on the full kickoff.

[NJCubScouter]

50 minutes ago, JustAScoutMom said:

I suppose I keep hearing in my head John Pesci saying "the two yoots" when referring to two 18-20 year old boys  

"The two whaaaat?  What did you say?"

"Sorry yer honor, the two Defendants."

This may be a sign that I have seen that movie too many times.  Nahh...

[Hawkwin]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 1:10 PM, Tampa Turtle said:

Well they are going to have to make those changes at some point. Interesting that they used the words 'coed' for venturing, etc but not Boy Scouts. I do not think, despite the 'Brand Value' the "Boy" is going to stay long in "Boy Scouting" much longer. Just looks weird.

I don't personally see it as weird, but unless we replace it with "something" then just "Scouts" is potentially more awkward when we consider the fact that there would be "Girl Scouts" and girls "Scouts."

Perhaps replace "boy" with some synonym for "outdoors." Maybe "Wilderness" or "Woodland." I am personally fine with leaving it just the way it is (many professions have dropped their gender specific suffixes for the male or non-gender specific titles - like actor/actress, steward/stewardess became flight attendant), and clearly those girls that have expressed interest in joining have not been deterred by the organization being called "Boy."