Who is headed to NOAC 2018?

[Eagle94-A1]

41 minutes ago, krikkitbot said:

No regalia for AOL or Cross over ceremonies. There is only one approved script. It is more like the court of honor in which you light a candle for each rank. 

Thankfully that new policy only affects the OA, not individual packs and/or troops.

 

[krikkitbot]

34 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@krikkitbot, were you at a session or seminar of NOAC that discussed this?

No, but there was an email that came out either right before NOAC or during NOAC. I can't remember it was all a blur. You can go to https://oa-bsa.org/resources/inductions and read the new approved ceremonies. The AOL ceremony specifically states that it is never performed in regalia. They say "American Indian costume" but we know better than to call it costume, don't we?

[MattR]

15 minutes ago, krikkitbot said:

No, but there was an email that came out either right before NOAC or during NOAC. I can't remember it was all a blur. You can go to

We've all seen that. It's just that there was apparently going to be a discussion at NOAC about that announcement. I'm just wondering if it really happened. As in, was there feedback given on the idea.

[krikkitbot]

I didn't go to ceremonies sessions. Interestingly, during the evening show, they brought out the black robes and made a point to emphasize that the ceremonies are not native american ceremonies. They are our traditions. I foresee a change in the near future going back to black robes and doing away with all native american regalia. 

[Eagle94-A1]

Black robes won't work in my area as we tried once before. Got complaints about the black robes being satanic as well as too reminiscent of the KKK robes.

 

[NJCubScouter]

16 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Black robes won't work in my area as we tried once before. Got complaints about the black robes being satanic as well as too reminiscent of the KKK robes.

Forest green robes?  But that might be too close to the Spiral Scouts, if they still exist.   

[RememberSchiff]

Back in the day, my old lodge used velvet robes which were the same color as Hef's but with a different cut and hood.  Rather intimidating back then. 

[HashTagScouts]

3 hours ago, MattR said:

We've all seen that. It's just that there was apparently going to be a discussion at NOAC about that announcement. I'm just wondering if it really happened. As in, was there feedback given on the idea.

From those who went, I was told there as no additional pronouncements or speeches addressing it.  At the expo, there were those available that would confirm what was previously announced.  One tidbit I got was that you can still use regalia, for Crossover/AOL, so long as the NA groups in your area have been consulted and give their blessing.  That seems contradictory to the language in the announcement. so I am working under the impression the announcement is the valid instruction to follow.

[Buggie]

Westley: If only we had a wheelbarrow, that would be something for our OA lodge activities...
Inigo: Where did we put that wheelbarrow the scout had?
Fezzik: Over the scout I think.
Westley: Well why didn't you list that among our assets in the first place? Oh, what I wouldn't give for a black cloak.
Inigo: There, we cannot help you.
Fezzik: [pulls out a black cloak] Will this do?
Inigo: Where did you get that?
Fezzik: At the troop's scout closet. It fit so nice, they said I could keep it.

 

Fezzik: Welcome to the OA! There will be no survivors! 

[mashmaster]

7 minutes ago, Buggie said:

Westley: If only we had a wheelbarrow, that would be something for our OA lodge activities...
Inigo: Where did we put that wheelbarrow the scout had?
Fezzik: Over the scout I think.
Westley: Well why didn't you list that among our assets in the first place? Oh, what I wouldn't give for a black cloak.
Inigo: There, we cannot help you.
Fezzik: [pulls out a black cloak] Will this do?
Inigo: Where did you get that?
Fezzik: At the troop's scout closet. It fit so nice, they said I could keep it.

 

Fezzik: Welcome to the OA! There will be no survivors! 

LOL, except that you need to be 14 to use a wheelbarrow......   No regalia, no wheelbarrows.....Soon only full Class A's 100% of the time, with BSA socks and underwear....

[HelpfulTracks]

On 8/3/2018 at 10:23 PM, Setonfan said:

Guess no one else is here from the forum, but this has been awesome.  Interesting  all here seem to be all in favor of girls joining Scouting.  

@Setonfan

Hey, yes I was there. But once I arrived I was so busy I didn't even think about accessing the forums. It was a great time, I wish you all could have been there.

[HelpfulTracks]

On 8/7/2018 at 10:55 AM, qwazse said:

@krikkitbot, were you at a session or seminar of NOAC that discussed this?

@qwazse - I was at the Ceremonies panel . . .

Highlights . . .

• Crossover - only approved ceremony is to be conducted by OA which is done without regalia.
• OA can do a presentation separate from the Crossover, using regalia, but must be separate and distinct from Crossover
• OA cannot lend, regalia to Troop or pack so they can perform old ceremony instead of OA
• OA members cannot perform old ceremonies apart from OA using OA regalia
• Reasons: this is a public ceremony that is often recorded, and many of those recordings showed OA Lodges conducting ceremonies that were off color and very offense to Native Americans, some were even frightening and potential dangerous to Cubs. Repeated request had been made to cease these ceremonies. Several calls PER WEEK were coming into National complaining about them, and legal action was being discussed by at least 2 tribes. It was agreed in order to resolve the legal issue, the OA would no longer conduct these ceremonies. Apparently you can Google Crossover and find a number of egregious examples, though many have been requested to be removed (I think by Tribal members) and have been.
• This policy does not effect other public ceremonies such as Call Out or Eagle COH. There currently are no plans to enforce any new policies here, but obviously if people are doing things that are offensive then I could see that changing.
• There are no changes in a Lodges ability to conduct other ceremonies (Pre-Ordeal, Ordeal, Brotherhood, Vigil)
• There is a regalia change
  • Lodges should begin the process of converting their regalia of ceremonies over to local tribal clothing by end of 2019
  • This should be done in consultation with local native communities and tribes - there is no national apparatus to have these discussions, lodge are on their own to have these discussions as individual lodges or are free to come together with other lodge to have discussions with the Native American tribes
  • Specific to females in ceremonies, please make sure that females conducting ceremonies in regalia is not offensive to these tribes
  • Currently, the option exist to do ceremonies in Field uniforms (aka Class A)
  • The optional use of black robes, like the ones originally used by Goodman and Carroll, are being discussed as an option, but nothing is official - this would be an additional option if approved, not a mandated replacement of regalia.
  • POW-WOW regalia is not effected by these changes, this regalia should follow the traditions of Pow-wow.
  • There are currently no official discussions about changing ceremonies contents or use of regalia and none are planned

I think that about covers it.

[HelpfulTracks]

On 8/7/2018 at 3:13 PM, HashTagScouts said:

From those who went, I was told there as no additional pronouncements or speeches addressing it.  At the expo, there were those available that would confirm what was previously announced.  One tidbit I got was that you can still use regalia, for Crossover/AOL, so long as the NA groups in your area have been consulted and give their blessing.  That seems contradictory to the language in the announcement. so I am working under the impression the announcement is the valid instruction to follow.

That is incorrect. The ONLY ceremony that may be conducted by OA for Crossovers, is the official ceremony, which is done in field uniform only. There are no options to use regalia in Crossovers.

Consulting with local tribes is for regalia for all other ceremonies is now required.

[MikeS]

It was my understanding that the black robes were worn by the Arrowmen spectators, not the four Principals; they were in regalia. Is that not correct??

The work-around, as discussed in other threads on this subject (q.v.) is what I term "Standing Bear Productions, LLC" - no official affiliation with the OA or even BSA.  

 

[qwazse]

Thanks @HashTagScouts!

56 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

...

• OA can do a presentation separate from the Crossover, using regalia, but must be separate and distinct from Crossover

...

That sounds to me like a fair compromise. (Caveat: I've never seen a crossover conducted by arrowmen, so I don't know what I'm missing.)

I don't think it 100% solves the problems that the national advisors are facing. The video cameras will still roll. Even if a local tribe approves every step of a dance and every word in the script, someone on the opposite side of the country will see it and make a call on behalf of their tribe because they are offended by what another tribe approves.

But, I think it will make it more fun for cubs. When I was a kid, half the was meeting actors or band/chorus members after their gig. Same for Son #2 when we went to see a ballet - which he liked, but when the Russian gal who danced the Nutcraker's Arabian invited him to chat a bit, I could see the "wow" factor in his eyes! The presentation becomes the "show" and crossover becomes that "backstage pass."