T2Eagle Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 So I have a conundrum about reporting a YPT violation. Over the weekend the troop was staying in a cabin at a nearby council’s camp. There were three rooms: a main room with about six bunks, plus two separate bunk rooms. Three of us adults went to sleep in one of those bunk rooms, scouts were spread across the main room and the other bunk room. One adult (not me) was snoring to raise the roof. When I woke up the other leader had dragged a mattress onto the floor of the main room where some of the scouts were asleep in bunks. When I asked him what happened he said it was move into the room with the scouts or smother our fellow leader with a pillow. So should I report the YPT violation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 My understanding is that there must be separate accommodations for co-ed overnighters and that no adult should share a tent with a youth other than their own child. As for the situation you describe, was the adult closed in a room in a one-on-one contact-type encounter with any youth? If there were multiple youth around in that room I think it's kind of a grey area. I would think seriously about reporting any individual unless you are absolutely sure this adult was violating the space or rights of the youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4CouncilsScouter Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 @T2Eagle I'd say you'd have two routes here: Route One: Complete Form 680-676 and submit it to your district executive or Scout executive. Route Two: Notify your district executive that an adult leader broke YPT separate accommodations for Scouts and Scouters policy, and explain to them exactly what happened. Let them know that you'll be working with the adult leader in question and refreshing him on YPT policies. If you suspect any inappropriate behavior or abuse occurred, immediately report it to your Scout executive or council office. Additionally, you may be required by your state to report any inappropriate behavior or abuse to law enforcement or other agencies. If this is case, Route Two is not appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I agree that the "separate accommodations" rule was violated. And I would support @4CouncilsScouter's "Route Two," especially stressing the fact that you'll work with the Scouter in question to avoid further infractions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSF Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Not sure why you are even asking this question. There was a clear violation here and it should be reported. Council and perhaps the COR can make the final determination on whether or not there was a violation, but as a responsible scouter you need to report this. Snoring...give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I totally understand where this gentleman was coming from. I went to a seminar and there were about 15 of us in one room. One of the guys snored so loud that he was the only one that got any sleep. This seminar was to last a whole week! The second night one of the guys brought a large glass of water into the dorm room and put it on the night stand. The guy who snored asked what that was for. He said, "If you snore again tonight I'm going to pour the whole glass down your throat. The rest of us said that if he didn't we would. That gentleman didn't snore for the rest of the week. If it had been me, I'd have packed up and left a note saying I would return in the morning and then headed out to some place quiet. 1) the gentleman did not go into the other bedroom, but went into the main area. I don't know where in the room, but did he attempt to find a place away from the boys? 2) The second night I would have put the gentleman who snored in one of the bedrooms and had all the boys sleep in the main area, asked him to find somewhere else to sleep, or got a glass of water and set it next to my bed. People CPAP machines make arrangements for consideration of others. People who snore don't always know they do it. Who's to fault? What up-front precautions were addressed for such a situation? None? At 1:OO am, what options are open? I would just let the gentleman know his snoring is an issue and he needs to take appropriate steps to deal with it or overnights won't be on the agenda for him. Did any of the boys make any comments on this situation? If any did, I would hold a private SMC with anyone who did. I'm thinking in the middle of the night, none of them may have even noticed unless a YPT issue was present. If none of that satisfies your "gut" go with reporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadamus Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 @T2Eagle, If you feel uncomfortable enough to ask the question, you probably already know the answer. @SSF, let's please avoid assuming any intentions on the part of the Scouter in question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsBrian Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) As a youth, I personally believe he did not do anything wrong. - He wasn’t one on one with a scout. - He was in the MAIN room, not a side room (If he napped in there during the day, would that violate it since there are scouts in the MAIN area where he is sleeping?) - Was on ground, not sharing a bunk - Last minute decision (1am, nobodies thinking then) - A cabin isn’t a tent Edited January 15, 2018 by ItsBrian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 The tent vs other (bunk house, sub, cave) has been discussed by our leadership regarding YPT. In many cases (outside tent) you have no choice but to have youth and adults sleep in the same area. However, our focus was no one on one, female leaders separate as much as possible, two deep leadership when near youth, arrange sleeping arrangements as close to YPT tent policy as possible. The violation is this case is the two deep leadership and the fact the Troop has found a way to keep leaders and scouts separate. I can completely see a leader, at 1am, groggy thinking to hell with this and pulling his bed into another room. It doesn’t make him evil or bad but it does still seem to be a violation. If he did it, he should even report it himself. Let the DE investigate. Inform the parents of the findings (probably nothing) and move on. All of this is to protect both youth and leaders. What happens if in 6 months one of those youth accuse him of jumping in his bed? That is why he should have not done this in the first place and it should be reported and investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) This is why I always bring my tent. And, yes, there have been sub-zero temps when I've set it up to avoid a cabin full of teen-scent and alcove of man-snore. (Or maybe I was the snore!) I'll sleep under a roof if there's only one other leader and he insists on staying in the cabin, or some base/hotel regulation insists adults be in the same quarters. Talk to your scout executive or director of field service. Generally, they are more respectful of this sort of thing than people give them credit. And, get the guy ear plugs as an early birthday present. Edited January 15, 2018 by qwazse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsBrian Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 There’s details that haven’t been answered that may determine if there was two deep. - Was the door to the other room closed? (Did it even have a door?...) - Was he still in eyesight of another adult? - How close was he to scouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eagle90 Posted January 15, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2018 We use one cabin for a winter camp-in that has only one large room, probably holding 50 people. There are no accommodations for separate adult and youth. We do keep the adults in one corner. I can't see a YPT violation since there was no one on one contact, no tent situation. I'd be careful about reporting this and possibly ruining the adult's reputation and future for an innocent situation. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I slept on this issue and @eagle90 beat me to it. I would be very careful with this in that it will make this person's life hell. Yes, I've done the 1 big room thingy and the boys & men/girls & women, two room thingy as well. I would talk to the fella, make him do YPT over, discuss options in the future and then forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) It's a violation and has to be reported. It sucks, because it seems pretty clear that this guy had zero ill intention and it was just a moment of desperation in the middle of the night trying to get some sleep. But we can't pick and choose when to follow the rules and when not to, especially when it comes to YPT. Edited January 15, 2018 by EmberMike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Keep it in mind one will lose this scouter and he will never be able to work with kids for the rest of his life. I surely hope he's not a school teacher. It will cost him his ability to earn a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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