Adding Girls to Pack

[Eagle1993]

@Pselb

Before this thread goes down a path of pro/con girls I would recommend (to all) that those posts go in Issues and Politics.  There has been pages of debate and I definitely have no issues seeing that debate continue and I believe you have some valid points and concerns.  I posted this in programs as my goal with this tread is to talk of the actual program as we add girls and issues/challenges/ideas as BSA already made the call and Packs that decide to add girls should have the ability to share experiences and ideas.

[RememberSchiff]

16 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

@Pselb

Before this thread goes down a path of pro/con girls I would recommend (to all) that those posts go in Issues and Politics.  There has been pages of debate and I definitely have no issues seeing that debate continue and I believe you have some valid points and concerns.  I posted this in programs as my goal with this tread is to talk of the actual program as we add girls and issues/challenges/ideas as BSA already made the call and Packs that decide to add girls should have the ability to share experiences and ideas.

I moved those posts over to a new I&P topic.

 

\

Edited February 7, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle1993]

Paper applications are now being accepted.  Most of the girls were able to register online but the. BSA payment system seems flaky after a couple of the parents spent hours using various browsers.  One parent said they checked their CC bill and found the BSA had charged them 8 x $33 ($264) (once for each attempt to register).  She said she is sure the BSA will refund the money ...🙄

There is an article online with our major paper and I’m working with them so they spell our Pack number correctly.  The council is having the other Pack lead the media effort and I’m perfectly content.  I think most members in our Pack fall into the category that adding girls is fine... but I don’t think they are looking to be the center of media attention or lead any crusade.

One challenge we are now facing.  We have three girls who are twin sisters of existing Pack members (all Tigers).  Our Tiger den is 26 Scouts.   A couple of them have been going to Pack and den meetings but are not members of the Pack.  They would like to join but the parents are too busy for more den meetings (for the girls den).  So we have started discussions of adding a second girl den, this one dedicated to Tiger girls that would meet same time and place as the boys.  My thought is that we can actually provide more separation between the boys and girls as I’ll have another den leader attend and work with them separately.  The adult partner will be there for both their kids.  Nothing official yet, but we are discussing it.

 

[Eagle1993]

Thought I would post a few updates.

 We have added 12 Scouts since January (8 girls and 4 boys).  One of the boys joined with his sister and another joined when the parents learned of us adding girls (that boy’s sisters will join in the fall as they have too many conflicts now).  We have 1 more Girl Tiger registration in progress and a couple more possible but we are looking to stop new registrations soon and restart in the fall.

Note we did decide to have the Girl Tiger den meeting during the same time/place as the boys.  We have separate leaders so they can be segregated.  We will monitor to see how this goes vs our other girl only den meeting.  By making this change a couple of fraternal twin girls (who were already attending the Boy Tiger den meeting) can join.

During our recent B&G all of the girls attended.  We do FOS during B&G and our girls den picture was in the council FOS pitch.  The Scoutmaster for the Troop we feed was also there (talking about Klondike awards) and gave an enthusiastic speech about why it is great to have girls officially in Scouts.  He stated that the Troop plans to add them as soon as possible.  All of the families and scouts applauded the new girls after the speech so it seemed to be a great welcome for them.

So far, no boy parents have complained or expressed any concern.  I’m sure there are some, but they have been silent and have kept their sons in the Pack.

PBS may be working on a story regarding girls in Cub Scouts.  We are in discussions about having them film a den meeting.  We will see if it goes forward.

I’m starting to hear negative feedback regarding keeping the girls in separate dens.  This is coming from various parents and a few boy den leaders.  Not too many yet, but seeing boys and girls segregated is not typical within any local organization in our community and there have been a few comments about “separate but equal”.  Other than the slightly mixed Tiger den (same bat time and same bat channel but segregated) we are planning on keeping them separate for the rest of the year.  The parents accepted that answer.  I see this as a debate over the summer.  

GSUSA Troops in our school will lose members and leaders.  That part is getting a bit ugly.  One of the Troop leaders agreed to finish the year but informed GSUSA she was resigning from the Troop along with her daughter and a few other girls.  

 I’ve heard from many other parents who plan to sign up girls this fall, based on rough estimates we think our Pack will be 20-30% girls.  Only time will tell.

Those are the major updates at this point.

[NJCubScouter]

Thanks for the updates Eagle1993! It’s kind of fascinating watching this play out in real time.

[ItsBrian]

44 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

 The Scoutmaster for the Troop we feed was also there (talking about Klondike awards) and gave an enthusiastic speech about why it is great to have girls officially in Scouts.  He stated that the Troop plans to add them as soon as possible.  

How does he plan to add them when troops have to be separate?

[Eagle1993]

54 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

How does he plan to add them when troops have to be separate?

Option 1 - If BSA requires separate Troops for girls they will form a girl Troop and meet at the same time/place.  They have enough ASMs to staff up a girl Troop from their existing Boy Scout Troop.

Option 2 - Based on rumors we are hearing BSA may allow Troops to add girls as a separate Patrol.  

They would prefer Option 2 but either case leads to the same functional outcome.

One note.. this Troop has had girls unofficially participating for years.  They can’t do summer camps or other council activities but they go on high adventure and other outings.  A few even work on MBs (unofficially).  So the culture of the Troop is essentially coed.

 

[WisconsinMomma]

It is interesting that families are leaving Girl Scouts for Boy Scouts and if that's a natural result it's not too bad.  One little sister told me at blue and gold that she joined girl scouts,and I asked her what she's done in girl scouts and she said -- sell cookies!!!

I feel that GS is all cookie, cookie, cookie.  if I were a girl mom I would try to get away from it too. 

[Eagle1993]

40 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It is interesting that families are leaving Girl Scouts for Boy Scouts and if that's a natural result it's not too bad.  One little sister told me at blue and gold that she joined girl scouts,and I asked her what she's done in girl scouts and she said -- sell cookies!!!

I feel that GS is all cookie, cookie, cookie.  if I were a girl mom I would try to get away from it too. 

I started to write paragraphs of my and other parents’ experience with GSUSA but I decided I was becoming not Scout like.  I’ll just say when we started girls in our Pack my wife, other leaders and I were very protective of GSUSA.  After my daughter’s experience and hearing reports of others we have all lost respect for that organization and unless something changes I plan to pull my daughter out (as do others).

Edited February 27, 2018 by Eagle1993

[ItsBrian]

40 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It is interesting that families are leaving Girl Scouts for Boy Scouts and if that's a natural result it's not too bad.  One little sister told me at blue and gold that she joined girl scouts,and I asked her what she's done in girl scouts and she said -- sell cookies!!!

I feel that GS is all cookie, cookie, cookie.  if I were a girl mom I would try to get away from it too. 

It really does depend on who leads it. My mother was in GS for years even after my sister aged out. She was the one that was in charge of all the camporee s (100+ Scouts at each one), planned all the weekend trips, activities, etc.

I was able to go once when I was young and it was a fantastic experience. I mean there was all these fancy cabins with toasters and stuff, but so many were tent camping as well. And they did low cope just like Boy Scouts do, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

[Treflienne]

I've been lurking for a little while, trying to learn a little about
the differences between BSA and GSUSA culture, but I guess I'll jump
in and speak up now.  I have a 6th grade daughter, who after hearing
the BSA plans to admit girls in 2019, and after reading an old Boy
Scout handbook, tells me she wants to become a Boy Scout as soon as
the program is available to girls her age.  So we are thinking about
crossing the Tiber.

A couple of comments on the differences: BSA has camping and outdoor
skills built into the rank advancement.  GSUSA does not: outdoor stuff
is completely optional.  Combine that with "girl led" which often
means "majority rule", then if the majority of girls in a troop don't
want to camp, then the troop does not camp (and the majoriy of the
girls in the troop are happy with that situation). But some of the
minority of want-to-go-outside-and-get-muddy girls may find BSA
attractive.  Other families seem to be perfectly happy with the GSUSA
program as is.

[RememberSchiff]

@Treflienne welcome to scouter.com

[qwazse]

58 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

...  So we are thinking about crossing the Tiber.

A couple of comments on the differences: BSA has camping and outdoor
skills built into the rank advancement.  GSUSA does not: ... the
minority of want-to-go-outside-and-get-muddy girls may find BSA
attractive.  Other families seem to be perfectly happy with the GSUSA
program as is.

@Treflienne, welcome to the forums!

Thanks for your insight.

FYI - If you were anywhere near the Tiber (or the Po), your daughter could join Scout's Italia today, and she would have a "Boy Scouts Italy" patch on her shoulder. At least that's what an exchange student from there had on her uniform when she joined our crew.

[Eagle1993]

@Treflienne

Good to hear your interest and I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks for the details and that is essentially what I have seen with my daughter’s Troop and what I have heard from other GSUSA members who have joined our Pack.

The other issues I face is that our local Troop meetings are right after school so:

- a lot of girls attend as a social activity and free after school daycare, many of them have no desire for doing outdoor activities (their outing that was voted on is going to the American Doll store)

- Another Troop is not an option.  We would never be able to get my daughter out of school to another Troop meeting on time, so if we don’t like our Troop’s activities we are out of luck.

@ItsBrian is correct as I’m sure there are some great outdoor focused GSUSA Troops out there.  I just wish it was more common but understand my daughter is probably in the minority (girls that would perfer a hike vs going to a doll store).

 

[Hawkwin]

My daughter will be attending her first Cub Scout meeting in a few weeks. She is currently a Girl Scout and plans to remain active in both.

She is so geeked to be a Cub Scout that she has been using her tablet (we don't have any of the books yet) to research Bobcat requirements and she has asked her older Boy Scout brother to help her study so that she can earn her Bobcat at her first meeting.

 

On an unrelated tangent, my son built his improvised natural shelter over the weekend for his Wilderness Survival Merit Badge. He plans to sleep in it next weekend.

<-Proud papa.