Adding Girls to Pack

[Hawkwin]

7 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

Den of one girl and you don't know how many other girls are in the pack?

No, as I am a newly minted Den Leader (about a week old), my focus has been on my training, not on the number of girls in the rest of the Pack. Not really my issue per what I have seen in my training so far (2 of 3 learning plans completed so perhaps there is something about recruitment in the 3rd plan but nothing suggests such from the modules).

 

7 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

If there less than four girls of the same age, all of the girls should be in one den of mixed ages.

We might end up that way. We certainly haven't closed our doors to new applicants.

[an_old_DC]

12 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

No, as I am a newly minted Den Leader (about a week old), my focus has been on my training, not on the number of girls in the rest of the Pack. Not really my issue per what I have seen in my training so far (2 of 3 learning plans completed so perhaps there is something about recruitment in the 3rd plan but nothing suggests such from the modules).

 

We might end up that way. We certainly haven't closed our doors to new applicants.

 

So many questions with this situation as it does not follow National’s clearly articulated and well publicized guidelines for early-adopter packs....

Where are the CM and CC in all this? Didn’t they need to agree to early-adopter practices with your Council? Is your Council not requiring the pack to follow said practices? 

[Hawkwin]

8 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

it does not follow National’s clearly articulated and well publicized guidelines for early-adopter packs....

In what way? Seriously, I've not read these guidelines so if you think I am doing something wrong, I'd like to know what it is.

 

8 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

Where are the CM and CC in all this? Didn’t they need to agree to early-adopter practices with your Council? Is your Council not requiring the pack to follow said practices? 

I've only met with the CC once less than a week ago. What policies and procedures they followed to get to this point didn't come up.

Again, I am a DL of all of a week. I've not asked those questions as they don't particularly concern me - I was more focused on how many we would have in our den and how successful they had been in recruiting other Webelos. I do know that the council is aware of the Pack (someone from the council was copied on the announcement of my selection as the DL) and that same person was invited to be at our next leaders meeting, IIRC. Beyond that, I have no more answers for you. This is a new Pack for us in a new district (same council) so what prep work they did prior to all of this, I simply don't know. For all I know, there might be a Den of 3 Tigers being formed as I type this. *shrug*

 

[Eagle94-A1]

@Hawkwin,

You do have a female ADL working with you?  According to the info put out by national,  a girls' den needs one registered, YPT female over 21 in addition to a second person.

[ParkMan]

I'd make sure you know the BSA YPT rules here.  But as you're den leader for a den of just your daughter, maybe those rules are a bit different.

Me - I'd focus on figuring out how to build a den around your daughter.  I'm worried your den of one will turn into a troop of one in a year.  If you need to jump packs, rally more help on recruiting, or something else - I think you need to be asking those questions.  My goal would be a patrol of 10 girls your daughters age in a year.

[an_old_DC]

18 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

In what way? Seriously, I've not read these guidelines so if you think I am doing something wrong, I'd like to know what it is

 

You are getting no direction from the CM?? You do realize you cannot have a den of one girl, right? Plus you need a female co-DL or ADL. And as for adding more girls to the den or pack, as an early adopter pack, the window has closed and you cannot accept more girls until next fall.

 

https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/familyscouting/pdf/Early-Adopter-Program-AQ.pdf

 

[an_old_DC]

On 3/15/2018 at 8:41 PM, numbersnerd said:

So 2 1/2 months to complete a program we are told should really take the better part of 8 months?

To apply as an early adopter pack, the pack must create an accelerated advancement program so any girl who wants to can advance a rank (not Bobcat) by May 31. This plan must be approved by the local council before allowing the pack to be an early adopter

[Eagle1993]

On 3/15/2018 at 8:41 PM, numbersnerd said:

So 2 1/2 months to complete a program we are told should really take the better part of 8 months?

It definitely can be done.  I don’t recommend it as you don’t have time for any of the electives and the focus is simply completing required adventures.  Some items require a bit more “homework”.  Normally we wouldn’t push to have scouts who join at this time to advance, just enjoy the game Pack meetings and gain a few adventures during the den meetings.

[numbersnerd]

3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

It definitely can be done.  I don’t recommend it as you don’t have time for any of the electives and the focus is simply completing required adventures.  Some items require a bit more “homework”.  Normally we wouldn’t push to have scouts who join at this time to advance, just enjoy the game Pack meetings and gain a few adventures during the den meetings.

So girls are allowed to join and a program is created that let's them earn rank advancement in 2 1/2 months?

All those who predicted program changes due to this were right after all.

[Eagle1993]

12 minutes ago, numbersnerd said:

So girls are allowed to join and a program is created that let's them earn rank advancement in 2 1/2 months?

All those who predicted program changes due to this were right after all.

There is no program change.  Same program, just accelerated.  Note that this will only occur this spring due to early adopter rules.  That was a requirement for early adopter Packs.  Other requirements include minimum of 4 girls, YPT female adult present at all meetings/outings with girls along with a few others.

[JustAScoutMom]

Just now, Eagle1993 said:

There is no program change.  Same program, just accelerated.  Note that this will only occur this spring due to early adopter rules.  That was a requirement for early adopter Packs.  Other requirements include minimum of 4 girls, YPT female adult present at all meetings/outings with girls along with a few others.

I would also presume the majority of early entry girls were siblings, so quite likely they already knew most of the requirements, but just had to demonstrate.  And, they don't even need to earn rank.....not all of the boys do, but if they can do it, great.

[qwazse]

12 minutes ago, numbersnerd said:

So girls are allowed to join and a program is created that let's them earn rank advancement in 2 1/2 months?

All those who predicted program changes due to this were right after all.

I don't consider that a program change. It's asking the pack to deliver on the promise of scouting to any girl who starts as an early adopter. It allows them the opportunity to make rank if they want to.

I remember my Sons' DLs doing something of the sort for any cub scout who joined late in the year. It was an individual challenge that some boys took on, while others were perfectly content doing whatever the den was doing and start advancement in earnest after their buddies moved up.

What I don't like is what @Eagle1993 pointed out. It puts pencil-whipping over fun for an entire den.

4 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

You are getting no direction from the CM?? You do realize you cannot have a den of one girl, right? Plus you need a female co-DL or ADL. And as for adding more girls to the den or pack, as an early adopter pack, the window has closed and you cannot accept more girls until next fall.

Welcome to the "boots" of boots-on-ground scouters.

[Eagle1993]

28 minutes ago, JustAScoutMom said:

I would also presume the majority of early entry girls were siblings, so quite likely they already knew most of the requirements, but just had to demonstrate.  And, they don't even need to earn rank.....not all of the boys do, but if they can do it, great.

Some are sisters which definitely helps.  The three key attributes which helps us get through the program quickly:

1 - Small dens.  Many of the adventures cycle through each scout.  When you only have 3 in a den you can get through the adventures more quickly.

2 - Parents and Scouts are motivated.  These are the girls and parents who really wanted to be in cub scouts.  They don’t miss meetings and do the homework.

3 - Girls, in general, have better attention spans and more focus at this age.  So while boys may need to get their wiggles out from time to time we can power thru.  

Again, not ideal and we won’t be looking to get scouts advanced in 2.5 months in the future.

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

...3 - Girls, in general, have better attention spans and more focus at this age.  So while boys may need to get their wiggles out from time to time we can power thru.  ...

If my years teaching Sunday School are any indication, you'll eventually come across the girls who are too scatter-brained to advance much in less than six months

At least in my crew, it was the Girl Scouts who had attention to detail nailed down. The girls who weren't scouts needed help, but they were more comfortable just winging it - which was the more essential skil for backpacking.

Only one venturer asked me about menses and wilderness. So, I asked a few guides, and they were pretty confident that it was a non-issue.

[numbersnerd]

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

There is no program change.  Same program, just accelerated.  Note that this will only occur this spring due to early adopter rules.  That was a requirement for early adopter Packs.  Other requirements include minimum of 4 girls, YPT female adult present at all meetings/outings with girls along with a few others.

Offering an accelerated advancement opportunity is a requirement. Sounds like a program change to me.