Flag Retirement Ceremony Questions

[Greeneagle5]

HELP !! Our Troop is hosting a 2 District camporee this weekend(300 Scouts) and thought it would be an excellent opportunity to have a US Flag retirement ceremony on Sunday as part of the closing program. The Troop asked the local radio station to announce the ceremony and list 2 drop-off sites in town this week. Well......did we score BIG !! The local hospital loaded our wagon with 3 tattered 50'x75' monster Flags. Now, I was prepared for 15 or 20 4'x6' flags but the the monsters thru me a curve. Should we cut the stripes (lengthwise) , then fold the stars before burning to downsize the package ? We have a clean and cut 55 gallon barrel elevated off the ground on blocks that we were planning on using for our incinerator. Those flags are a puzzle, and I don't want to 'mess-up' the ceremony.

Greeneagle5

[Fat Old Guy]

There is no pre-defined or sanctioned ceremony for burning a flag. For some reason, people have taken to cutting the flags to bits before burning them. Not needed at all.

 

Do whatever you want. Just do it with dignity and respect.

[Twocubdad]

The local SAMS post does a big retirement ceremony here and always has a huge pile of flags. They ususally go through the ceremony with just one flag and have all the rest folded and draped across the fire lay. They have a special metal A-frame they use. We've done the same thing on campouts lashing together a simple A-frame.

 

Be prepared that most current flags are nylon and make a mess when burned producing a ton of black oily smoke.

[OneHour]

What we have done in the past is to pre-cut all of the flags to be retired, except for one representative one. With a ceremony that involved 13 boys, each read his piece as the ASMs cut each strip. After his piece is read, the boy took the same strip from the pre-cut flags and the ceremonial strip, handed to the SM, saluted, and returned to his position. The SM then placed them onto the fire. We then folded the fields of blue and placed it onto the fire and sang various patriotic songs until the fields of blue were completed gone and which time we sang TAPS.

 

I would have to agree with FOG. To date, I have not found an official US sanctioned ceremony; however, there are a lot of great ceremonies out there on the web and this is the intro that I borrowed:

 

"Scoutmaster: The flag of the United States of America is an honored symbol of our nation's unity, its hopes, its achievements, its glory and its high resolve. When the flag is in such condition, through wear or damage, that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, it shall be retired in a dignified manner befitting such a symbol.

 

SPL: The traditional way is to cut the flag into pieces and burn it in a modest but blazing fire. A flag ceases to be a flag when it is cut into pieces. We cut this flag and rest of the flags into their respective colors, 7 red stripes, 6 white stripes, and the blue field. We leave the blue field intact because no one should ever let or allow the Union to be broken. As we perform this respected duty, let us reflect on the design, meaning of our flag, our country. Please remain in complete and absolute silence throughout the ceremony."

 

... and of course we performed the ceremony on a different fire than the campfire. After the campfire (or next morning), we gathered the gromets (to be returned to the flag's owner if known) and we buried the ashes.

 

I would have to admit ... I have never seen tears from grown men at similar ceremony until we performed the ceremony not long after 9/11 and it still draws emotion from me and those who witness it for the first time (especially in the Pack). The usual response that I get is ... "I never knew that there is a way to retire our flag!"

 

1Hour

[Twocubdad]

About a year ago our pack pieced together a ceremony using things we liked from several different ones. There are scads of different ceremonies on the Internet. The funny thing is that most are different, but all very seriously state, in bold type, that things MUST be done according to their script.

 

You MUST cut the canton out first!

You MUST cut the stripes apart first!

You MUST burn the stripes last!

You MUST burn the stars last!

 

But as FOG says, there is no official method. Burning isn't even proscribed, just traditional.

[OldGreyEagle]

I just posted this elsewhere but here we go again

 

One part of YoungSpikedEagles Eagle Project was composing and running a flag retirement ceremony. Other portions were the replacment of American flags at the graves of veterans at local Cemeteries and collecting American Flags from the general public and governmental units.

 

The local VFW was the sponsoring organization.

 

As part of the Ceremony YoungSpiked researched the flag code and assembled a ceremony to be used while 712 American Flags were retired.

 

The opening of the Ceremony was YoungSpiked saying

 

"According to Title 36, section 176, of the United States Code: "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America;"

 

Paragraph K of this same section, states: "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

 

Each flag that meassured three feet wide to 8 feet wide had a six foot length of hay bale

twine tied to each corner. Four scouts then

carried the flag to the fire by means of the twine, the fire had flames 2-3 feet high and was about 4'X 8' in dimension. As the scouts brought each flag over the fire, the flag would catch the heat rising from the flames and billow up. The scouts would then slowly lower the flag, by means of the twine down towards the flames. At about 3-5 inches from the flames the scouts would stop and within about 5-20 seconds (depending on the flag material, thin cotton being the fastest) the flags would literally explode into flames with only the charred ends of the twine touching the coals. The scouts would toss the twine into the fire and circle around to get another flag. The smaller flags that had been collected from Veterans graves were Bundled into 50 flags groups bound together with wire and brought over the fire vertically.

 

Larger Flags were placed on a Metal Grill placed in the fire before it was lit

 

While this was occurring the Bethlehem's Liberty High Schools' Bagpiper Corp and Band played alternating with the Reading of the Declation of Independance and a few other patriotic compositions.

 

When it was over, the VFW group had tears in their eyes and thanked YoungSpiked who then had tears of his own.

 

 

[nldscout]

What are these big flags made of? If they are nylon be aware of the massive novious fumes ones that size make.

 

According to US code any method to include burying is allowed. Back in Washinton DC, when I was in the Old Guard (Presidential Honor Guard) with the Army, we used to take all old flags we had once a month to the Pentagon incinerator and burn them.

[Eamonn]

Not being an American, I only know what I have read which by no means makes me an expert.

I thought that the retirement of a United States of America flag was supposed to be a private ceremony ? With only a few people involved?

Am I wrong?

Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Greeneagle5]

A small ceremony to show proper respect is the preferred method. We plan on honoring that tradition with only 15- 20 of our Troop in attendance and a few members of the VFW, our CO. I am well versed in Flag retirements, but appreciate the good suggestions. My question was directed towards ideas on disposal of such massive flags (4 now) that are at least 50'x75'. The massive size creates the question.

Greeneagle5

[fotoscout]

Maybe you want to save those two big flags to be used in a stand alone flag ceremony that is not connected to some other event?? You would have more time to effectively use them if you did that.

[AggieScouter]

You may want to leave out the big flags, if they are too large for you to handle safely and respectfully. Check with your local flag supplier; the one we buy our flags from will take in and dispose of any flag in a proper manner.

[Fat Old Guy]

What is meant by a private ceremony? 1 person? 2 people? One organization?

 

I saw a flag burining at a summer camp campfire that was very nice. I was accompanied by that poem about the tattered old flag. The hundreds of boys were SILENT during the entire thing and the old farts (like me) were almost in tears.

 

Maybe summer camp would be a good place to dispose of the HUGE flags.

 

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

We have always referred to this as "Final Honors"

[Greeneagle5]

FOG, I took your sage advice and contacted the local council camp director. I believe he liked your idea by offering to drive down to pick up the flags prior to camp commencement. With proper preparation this can be a tremendous experience for all. Thanks for the great educational idea for camp !

 Greeneagle5

[Greeneagle5]

 

 

P.S.

During our Troop meeting last night we took the huge flags out of the boxes and bags and carefully folded them into tri-corner folds. Folding (4)40x60 flags is definitely a total Troop activity. A GREAT program for Scouts and adults. It was very rewarding watching the young Scouts working alongside the older Scouts, and all trying to be so careful ! The flags will be given "Final Honors", 1 each week of Scout Camp at a special evening program.

 

Greeneagle5