"And They're Off...." Race to Be the First Female.....

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

They can. Quazse, you’re my candidate for National Director of Gender-inclusive Scouting.  Go get this thing up and running.  

I wouldn't last a day. Whoever gets the kickback for hawking wasted colored printing on MBPs would stage a coup.

[WisconsinMomma]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:28 PM, an_old_DC said:

Who the first Eagle Scout was is tremendously important to any Scout working on the Scouting Heritage MB, anybody who visits the museum at Philmont or anybody who treasures Scouting heritage in general.

Scouting Heritage ranks as #82 on the list of merit badge popularity from 2016, with about 5,000 badges earned in a year.   (Compare that to the 75,000 first aid merit badges earned.)  Good for people interested in Scouting history, but it's not vitally important information to the program.  If we say Scouting is not all about the Eagle rank, then it's not all about Eagle scout history. 

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/03/23/2016-merit-badge-rankings-unveiled-these-were-the-most-and-least-popular/

Edited January 9, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[WisconsinMomma]

On 1/7/2018 at 5:49 PM, Jameson76 said:

I too wondered.  Run a quick word search on the book...change He to They and let's move on. 

That being said, maybe there are more tweaks to put in so as to embrace the new "Family" emphasis.  I can see the shocked faces, but maybe our CSE and crowd have not fully disclosed all the coming changes

I was speaking to a parent the other day about school stuff and raising kids, and teens, etc. etc. and I asked, you have the two boys and your oldest is a daughter, right?  She said -- actually my oldest is nonbinary, so we use different pronouns. 

OK, so, honestly this is new stuff for me, and it takes me a little time to wrap my head around.  But, this is our world and this is how things are working right now.  So, this nonbinary child, they can be part of Scouting.  I have very little experience with in-between gender identity, and I don't even know if that's the appropriate way to describe it.   But, this is where society is going.   The other day, I noticed some boys clothes in Target, and I was interested in the clothing for one of my sons, but something held me a little back -- the cute shirt was ever so slightly -- girly.  The collection includes a dusty pink tone.   I realized later that this collection was positioned on the edge of the boys clothing area -- near bordering the girls area.   This clothing is designed to be in-between.  I Googled Target to see what's up with gender neutrality and saw that a while ago, the removed the boys and girls signs from their toys and home goods sections.  Now gender bending is visible in the children's clothing area.  Subtle, but this is totally planned and conscious. 

Examples:

https://www.target.com/p/boys-floral-short-sleeve-t-shirt-art-class-153-heather-gray/-/A-52721631#lnk=sametab

https://www.target.com/p/boys-short-sleeve-dip-dye-t-shirt-art-class-153-water-violet/-/A-52727367#lnk=sametab

I'm totally wondering how this particular collection will sell, but there's no doubt about the trend.

Edited January 9, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[Jameson76]

4 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I was speaking to a parent the other day about school stuff and raising kids, and teens, etc. etc. and I asked, you have the two boys and your oldest is a daughter, right?  She said -- actually my oldest is nonbinary, so we use different pronouns. 

 

It is in fact a brave new world.  You know, not to threadjack here, I do find it interesting that for the most part youth under the age of 16 cannot vote, get credit, drive by themselves, fly unattended, join the military, get married, decide on most medical procedures, own guns, enter into contracts, in some places wander about by themselves, decide if they want to go to school, or do a myriad of things that those 18 and over can freely do.  The reasons usually given center on maturity, responsibility, experience, knowledge, etc.  However, if a 10 year old determines they do not want to be their biological sex, but are really "something else", hey no issue, you go right ahead and enjoy this potentially life changing impacting decision. 

[NJCubScouter]

Let's please not turn this into a discussion of transgender/non-binary gender/etc.  That really should be under Issues and Politics.  This thread is about whether there is a "race" to become the first female Eagle Scout, and whether that "race" is a good thing, bad thing, or both, or neither.

[Hawkwin]

6 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

This thread is about whether there is a "race" to become the first female Eagle Scout, and whether that "race" is a good thing, bad thing, or both, or neither.

On that point, it is very likely good (even great?!?) PR even if it is not necessarily good in practice.

That being stated and due to how the those BOR for Eagle are scheduled though, my guess is that there will be quite a few that make Eagle on the same day throughout the country. We averaged 150 Eagles a day in 2016 (55,000 for the year) so it stands to reason that we might see dozens if not hundreds of girls all obtain Eagle on the same day - so in that respect, there will very unlikely be a true first.

[Back Pack]

It’s a bad thing. Changing rules for any one segment is a bad thing. Rules are rules. As soon as you start changing them you discriminate against someone. I’ve got friends who missed Eagle by a few days or one MB requirement. They learned from that and have become better people as a result. If we change any rules to make it easier for the first girl to make Eagle what does that say about gender equality or equality in general. 

[Hawkwin]

39 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

It’s a bad thing. Changing rules for any one segment is a bad thing.

???

What rule change are you eluding to? The OP doesn't (and NJCubScouter doesn't, and I don't) refer to changing any rules in the "race to be Eagle." Perhaps you are conflating two different topics? This is simply about whether or not, as NJ stated, the race is good, bad, both or neither.

 

[Back Pack]

1 minute ago, Hawkwin said:

???

What rule change are you eluding to? The OP doesn't (and NJCubScouter doesn't, and I don't) refer to changing any rules in the "race to be Eagle." Perhaps you are conflating two different topics? This is simply about whether or not, as NJ stated, the race is good, bad, both or neither.

 

I didn’t realize we had to stick to a single thread when responding. I haven’t seen that happen here since I joined. The race is bad because it almost always involves rushing. It’s bad because it almost always involves pushy parents. It’s bad because in another thread we have girls pushing bsa to allow corners to be cut. It’s bad because racing reinforces poor quality. If we’re being honest very rarely to we see any youth attain any stature without a high degree of adult pushing and prodding. 

[Hawkwin]

6 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

I didn’t realize we had to stick to a single thread when responding

I'm not your parent or a mod so you don't have to do anything on my account - but that being stated, if you want a more effective conversation, then mixing topics (even those tangentially related) is a sure way to hinder such.

 

8 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

The race is bad because it almost always involves rushing. It’s bad because it almost always involves pushy parents.

Agreed. This is why I also stated that it was bad in practice. The same can be stated for the Trail to 1st Class.

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then. Let's try to stay on the topic here - the race for the first female Eagle scout within the existing requirements for Eagle. Thank you.

 

[Eagle1993]

This race exists for boys as well.  Just search 11 year old Eagle Scout.  I agree it is not a good thing, but it doesn’t really bother me that much.  From my experience those scouts are rare, a bit annoying but otherwise harmless to the remaining scouts.  If anything, it means the scouts that are racing get less out of the program.  I understand the girls who would age out racing to get Eagle more so than a boy (or girl) racing when they have plenty of time.  

[blw2]

I still am struggling with the fundamental semantics problem here..... how can they continue to brand it "Boy Scouts of America".....and why really would a girl strive to be a Boy Scout.... I just don't get it.

[Hawkwin]

9 minutes ago, blw2 said:

I still am struggling with the fundamental semantics problem here..... how can they continue to brand it "Boy Scouts of America".....and why really would a girl strive to be a Boy Scout.... I just don't get it.

I can only speak anecdotally based on what my daughter has stated. Boy Scout is just a name. It isn't really a gender or gender specific - any more than playing with dolls or Hot Wheels is gender specific. If you don't feel shame (or perhaps if you simply feel no difference at all), then being in "Boy" Scouts doesn't feel demeaning if you are a girl. Perhaps youth today don't hold as tight to gender terminology as we did. Also, perhaps gender dynamics and division really doesn't manifest until puberty or later. My daughter wasn't bothered at all by the idea of her being one of only two girls on the all-boys wrestling team at 9. I would bet that if she were to approach that decision brand new at age 14, she might view it differently.

Let's keep in mind that girls have been in Boy Scouts of America for decades via Venturing and Explorers so perhaps removing that bit if qualification (Venturer with BSA and now just BSA), doesn't feel that significant to them. Also, male-centric terminology remains even in organizations that are fully coed. I've stated on this site before that while I was in college, I was in a coed business fraternity that was 70% female yet our approved terminology for each other was "brother [last name]." We had no problem recruiting women to join our Fraternity (also a male term) and being called a "brother" also wasn't enough to turn them away.

Hawkwin

Who married his "brother"

[Stosh]

Changes used to be caused by warfare, rebellions, and revolutions....  Today we have silent coups.  Like the frog in cold water on the stove, one day the world is different and most never saw it coming.