Council too tightly managing communication - Venting

[Stosh]

So does that mean transgender girls go in which Cub den?  And by the way, does a homosexual male scout leader go under the male or female category when identifying the 2-deep leadership?  It's one thing to step in a meadow muffin and yet another thing to clean up afterwards.

Pandora's Box is opened, have fun with that.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Stosh

[Jameson76]

2 minutes ago, Stosh said:

So does that mean transgender girls go in which Cub den?  

Pandora's Box is opened, have fun with that.

In theory they would go into the Den of the gender that they self identify as.  (not sure I got all my pronouns correct, but it is what it is).  To your pandora's box reference, one would assume if a biological female self identified as a male, they could join a current troop right now.  No doubt that is currently happening somewhere even as we discuss this

[RememberSchiff]

Let's be less crude in speculating and describing scenarios that would rarely, if ever, occur.

cc:

@NJCubScouter , @Sentinel947, @LeCastor

[Tampa Turtle]

On 1/5/2018 at 11:04 AM, Jameson76 said:

Vice President for Family Scouting - Those oranges are not slicing themselves and the participation ranks will not award themselves...somebody has to take the lead

The emphasis on "Family" which appears to be the new buzzword for success (articles in Scouting magazine and Boys Life) is what will no doubt cause much confusion and derision in the next 24 months.  There is no real definition on what it means and if you question what it means one may be accused of not living up to the Scout Oath and Law

How can BSA decide on what is a "family" if the society is conflicted over defining "gender".

[Stosh]

Even today's society doesn't have a clear definition of "family".  It's a generic term that means absolutely nothing.

[Tampa Turtle]

Stosh since we are part of the same online scouting family can you take me to Jambo? 

[Stosh]

Sure,  my family has both in-laws and out-laws.  You'd fit right in.

[4CouncilsScouter]

9 hours ago, Stosh said:

homosexual male scout leader go under the male or female category

I thought we moved past this is in 2015...

A male leader, irregardless of their sexual orientation, counts as a male.

[NJCubScouter]

21 minutes ago, 4CouncilsScouter said:

I thought we moved past this is in 2015...

A male leader, irregardless of their sexual orientation, counts as a male.

Some people will never get past it.

[Stosh]

I see a lawsuit coming down the road on that.  It's just a matter of time.  Hypocrisy isn't protected by law.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Stosh

[Col. Flagg]

On 1/9/2018 at 9:12 AM, fred johnson said:

I just made that connection.  I did not make the connection.  Absolutely right.  Can't have "family" focus if forcing genders to be in different troops.  

Inconsistencies are aggravating.  

Can't?

I am the SM of the girls troop. You are the SM of the boys troop. We are going camping but neither of us have critical mass to go unless we go together (2-deep, # of adults, cars, etc.). *BOOM* you now have two units camping together. If mom or dad want to go along exactly how many troops are going to say no?

We don't officially have family camping now, yet many troops do it. How is having gender-separate units going to stop anyone from doing family camping?

[Tampa Turtle]

Our unit has, suddenly...really like in 3 months, de-evolved into Family Camping with lots of mom's and dad's coming to events, talking down more strenuous events, talking up other that are easy, etc...influencing the PLC on where they will spend their dollars. The mood seems to be "females are welcome so we girls can go camping". The boys do their meal planning and patrol box thing and a bunch of well meaning moms -and they are real nice God bless'em- talk about "getting enough (donuts, pizza, etc) for the whole Troop--don't worry we will pay for it". Some of the hard core boys are having nothing to do with it, they are conspicuous in their absence and some of 'middle aged' boys are OK with it because, well the catered campout makes the quick trip o Eagle that much easier. Frankly I was shocked out quick this change took place...I really cannot blame National. But I do not see it as a good sign. (I see the same thing in some other youth groups)

But a lot of parents are happy --reminds me when you have a good group of den parents who like to get together-- so O do not think the SM or CC will push it too far. I think they are gonna help their boys get Eagle quick and bail. 

'

[Col. Flagg]

17 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Our unit has, suddenly...really like in 3 months, de-evolved into Family Camping with lots of mom's and dad's coming to events, talking down more strenuous events, talking up other that are easy, etc...influencing the PLC on where they will spend their dollars. The mood seems to be "females are welcome so we girls can go camping". The boys do their meal planning and patrol box thing and a bunch of well meaning moms -and they are real nice God bless'em- talk about "getting enough (donuts, pizza, etc) for the whole Troop--don't worry we will pay for it". Some of the hard core boys are having nothing to do with it, they are conspicuous in their absence and some of 'middle aged' boys are OK with it because, well the catered campout makes the quick trip o Eagle that much easier. Frankly I was shocked out quick this change took place...I really cannot blame National. But I do not see it as a good sign. (I see the same thing in some other youth groups)

But a lot of parents are happy --reminds me when you have a good group of den parents who like to get together-- so O do not think the SM or CC will push it too far. I think they are gonna help their boys get Eagle quick and bail. 

'

This is Boy Scouts? Oh, I feel for you @Tampa Turtle. I would have tapped out looooong ago if that was the case. That's not Boy Scouting...that's a Pack event.

[Tampa Turtle]

@Col. Flagg Exactly. I say that and folks look like I am crazy.  I stopped attending the Committees due to a work conflict and missed 2 PLC's and 'WHAM". I am still hanging out enough to help out a few of 'my' older scouts but I think I will just adopt a policy of avoiding events that will just irritate me. That includes a lot of the neighboring Council Boy Scout events that sure feel like cub-scouting. I think that may be because if you have a Council event and a lot of people show up then it is a success regardless if it really reinforces the principles of the traditional Boy Scout program (see ref: Merit Badge Academies, Museum MB classes)

An older wiser Scouter reminded me there was nothing keeping me from planning my own camps and hikes with my family and a few friends the 'old school way'. If I can talk Mrs Turtle into it she might go though I think she does not see the thrill in too much deprivation. She does think camping means cooking meals on site and not catering; however, "camp cooking" means the man does everything. 

[Col. Flagg]

6 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

An older wiser Scouter reminded me there was nothing keeping me from planning my own camps and hikes with my family and a few friends the 'old school way'. If I can talk Mrs Turtle into it she might go though I think she does not see the thrill in too much deprivation. She does think camping means cooking meals on site and not catering; however, "camp cooking" means the man does everything. 

Our Crew does this now. It has become so popular that Scouts who have left the troop (and crew) have come back to attend.