cocomax Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Who claims there was a feminist agenda in star wars? Why feminists of course. . . https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/18/star-wars-the-last-jedi-women-bechdel-test http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/feature/a845869/star-wars-the-last-jedi-feminist-feminism/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/12/14/star-wars-last-jedi-feminist-women/943736001/ https://moneyish.com/ish/why-the-last-jedi-proves-that-star-wars-future-is-female/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Hawkwin said: This was the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back. Sorry to mix metaphors or genres or space-time, but are you out of your Vulcan mind? Spoiler: Leia flying through space was as unseemly as a laughing Vulcan. Edited January 7, 2018 by RememberSchiff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 21 hours ago, RememberSchiff said: Leia flying through space was as unseemly as a laughing Vulcan. Ya, that was pretty terrible but two points: 1. I did say it was the best SINCE TESB. 2. There is not a lot of strong competition for the best since TESB (low bar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 21 hours ago, cocomax said: Who claims there was a feminist agenda in star wars? Why feminists of course. . . I've learned long ago that people with bias will always interpret things through their own lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 21 hours ago, RememberSchiff said: Sorry to mix metaphors or genres or space-time, but are you out of your Vulcan mind? Spoiler: Leia flying through space was as unseemly as a laughing Vulcan. I did roll my eyes when that happened, but I chalked it up to just being one more thing that Force-sensitive people can do. And it's not that much more absurd than some of the other things we have seen in these movies over the years. As for a laughing Vulcan, well, we have seen that a couple of times, and there is that song, "The Laughing Vulcan and his Dog." (I know that some of our fellow forum members are rolling their eyes right out of their heads at this point.) 12 minutes ago, Hawkwin said: Ya, that was pretty terrible but two points: 1. I did say it was the best SINCE TESB. 2. There is not a lot of strong competition for the best since TESB (low bar). You seem to be impugning the quality of Return of the Jedi. I put the original trilogy films on a par with each other. But of course it's all a matter of taste. I like Star Trek VI, my wife thinks I'm out of my Vulcan mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The original Star Trek pilot has 'number one' the exec to be played by a woman. In 1966. And Star Trek has always had a racially diverse cast...I think Science Fiction frequently has done these things (a female President, a black President, etc) to show that the time portrayed is not of our time...so I do not think anything like this is new. Star Wars started out pretty white and male because I suspect that was the world George Lucas was familiar with. There is an article out there that discusses parallels with the original Star Wars with the Vietnam war. If one is nostalgic for the 'good ol days' of Star Wars one must remember both George Lucas (and Gene Roddenberry) were very liberal politically. I suspect that was true for a long time in Science Fiction which is why writers like Robert Heinlein and Orson Scott Card are outliers. @NJCubScouter ...sigh Star Trek VI?...at least you didn't say Star Trek:Generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: The original Star Trek pilot has 'number one' the exec to be played by a woman. In 1966. And Star Trek has always had a racially diverse cast...I think Science Fiction frequently has done these things (a female President, a black President, etc) to show that the time portrayed is not of our time...so I do not think anything like this is new. Star Wars started out pretty white and male because I suspect that was the world George Lucas was familiar with. There is an article out there that discusses parallels with the original Star Wars with the Vietnam war. If one is nostalgic for the 'good ol days' of Star Wars one must remember both George Lucas (and Gene Roddenberry) were very liberal politically. I suspect that was true for a long time in Science Fiction which is why writers like Robert Heinlein and Orson Scott Card are outliers. @NJCubScouter ...sigh Star Trek VI?...at least you didn't say Star Trek:Generations. Even Card got inspiration for Ender's Game from Joe Haldeman's 1974 book, The Forever War, which was a very blatant critique of the Vietnam War. I will stand up on one of my personal soapboxes.. Star Trek is Science Fiction. Star Wars is not. There is no actual Science in Star Wars anywhere, and Midichlorians do not count. That doesn't make Star Wars bad. Star Wars has hamstrung the Science Fiction genre. Any Sci-Fi movie that's made has to survive comparisons to the 800 pound Gorilla that is Star Wars, even though Star Wars isn't even the same genre. We have been doing pretty well for Sci Fi recently, with The Apes franchise, Blade Runner, Interstellar being some of the really good ones to come out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I will concede Star Wars is more Space Opera than Science Fiction but one can still enjoy chocolate ice cream as well as vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 29 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: The original Star Trek pilot has 'number one' the exec to be played by a woman. In 1966. And Star Trek has always had a racially diverse cast...I think Science Fiction frequently has done these things (a female President, a black President, etc) to show that the time portrayed is not of our time...so I do not think anything like this is new. I would say that the original show's treatment of women varied with the writers, producers, etc. Yes, the exec officer in the original pilot was a woman. But in the LAST episode, Kirk's old girlfriend says that women are not permitted to be starship captains. (Which becomes even more confusing when in the Enterprise series, set in an earlier time, there is at least one female starship captain.) In between the first and last episodes, I would say that sexism was frequently on display, which reflects the mid-late-60's. It was a tv show. And it was much further ahead on racial/ethnic diversity than on gender-equality, in my opinion. 29 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: @NJCubScouter ...sigh Star Trek VI?...at least you didn't say Star Trek:Generations. I was looking for an example of where my wife and I disagree. We actually both like Generations. 16 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said: I will stand up on one of my personal soapboxes.. Star Trek is Science Fiction. Star Wars is not. There is no actual Science in Star Wars anywhere, and Midichlorians do not count. That doesn't make Star Wars bad. Star Wars has hamstrung the Science Fiction genre. Any Sci-Fi movie that's made has to survive comparisons to the 800 pound Gorilla that is Star Wars, even though Star Wars isn't even the same genre. I think you're mostly right. But how is "the jump to hyperspace" really any different from "warp speed"? Isn't faster-than-light travel "science fiction" regardless of what you call it? (I can't think of any other examples at the moment.) 12 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: I will concede Star Wars is more Space Opera than Science Fiction but one can still enjoy chocolate ice cream as well as vanilla. And pistachio-almond. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said: You seem to be impugning the quality of Return of the Jedi. No, I'd just rank it 2nd best (since TESB) after this one. I blame ROTJ (and Ewoks) for the creation of Jar Jar and now Porgs. Worst decision of ROTJ was to change from Wookies to Ewoks. At least in this movie, Porgs were "better" because they had no real speaking roles and were in no way part of the storyline - just fluff. TESB, ANH, TLJ, ROTJ, and all the rest equally bad, including The Force Awakens (as if blowing up an even bigger "death star" wasn't overdone enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said: I think you're mostly right. But how is "the jump to hyperspace" really any different from "warp speed"? Isn't faster-than-light travel "science fiction" regardless of what you call it? (I can't think of any other examples at the moment.) No, warp speed is just a plot device to solve the light-speed speed limit. It's been around so long that it no longer is sci-fi. When I compare real sci-fi about ships that are alive and that have biological type defenses that can remotely start messing with your thoughts and drive you crazy, I see that Star Wars is just a Western in space. Good guys, bad guys, fighting, and cute women wearing cinnamon rolls over their ears. Edited January 8, 2018 by MattR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Hawkwin: I rank them more by trilogy. But I completely agree about the Ewoks. Edited January 8, 2018 by NJCubScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said: Hawkwin: I rank them more by trilogy. But I completely agree about the Ewoks. Ever had smoked trashcan Ewok at a campout? Better than dutch oven womprat chowder. Edited January 8, 2018 by Tampa Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 24 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: smoked trashcan Ewok OK, now you have to share. I Googled that phase with no luck. What's in it?!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Ewoks are friends, not food. (I guess I just tangented to a completely different kind of movie.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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