Star Wars: The Last Jedi and the Boy (Girl) Scouts of America

[NJCubScouter]

30 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Whether the movie goers liked the movie is irrelevant, they paid for a ticket and as far as the movie industry is concerned, that's all that counts.

What are you, some kind of capitalist or something?

[Stosh]

A movie doesn't need to be good or bad, it just needs to bring in people to pay money.  Kinda like registration fees.  What's the big deal if a Webelos cross over doesn't like scouts and quits after 3 months.  Does he get his money back?  Nope.

Ever wonder what the #1 motivator is?  MONEY.   Even socialist countries have Black Markets.

[qwazse]

11 hours ago, SSF said:

Yeah, I remember that poll on this site...again though, let's be honest, the idea of girls in the Boy Scouts has not been well received.

For my one vote, I'm an Eagle and I think girls in Boy Scouts is absurd. 

Complacency is a big problem, IMHO, among scouters in the BSA. All too often, they're willing to just look the other way or do nothing. When people sit by and let the special interest proponents do whatever they want, we end up with girls in the Boy Scouts...

Depends on your bubble. My troop is at the intersection of a few. It's been interesting to see the mix of proponents (generally older, seemingly conservative types) and opponents (generally younger, both conservative and liberal) of BSA4G.

Depending on who I talk to, BSA could be the rebellion or the First Order.

This conservative-leaning Eagle scout's vote is goes back maybe even before Katrina Yeaw: we Americans should be in the business of achievement, not identity. BSA missed the boat on this one, and they've been playing catch-up for decades.

[Tampa Turtle]

9 hours ago, Stosh said:

A movie doesn't need to be good or bad, it just needs to bring in people to pay money.  Kinda like registration fees.  What's the big deal if a Webelos cross over doesn't like scouts and quits after 3 months.  Does he get his money back?  Nope.

Ever wonder what the #1 motivator is?  MONEY.   Even socialist countries have Black Markets.

But a movie that is both good and please the fans has the best 'legs' and will over time bring in a lot of money. While there are folks in the entertainment industry to who are trying to promote their art as much as their livelihoods the people who back them are in the business to make money. So that is a potential self correcting feature. Of course the Star Wars franchise is its own pocket universe now with multiple income streams from merchandise, secondary media spin-offs (books, background films, cartoons), and theme parks so that as long as a new film supports that it may matter less if it is good.

And am I crazy...Last Jedi has a 90% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, Eberts (legacy) review site has it at 5 stars. Hardly 'hated by a majority of fans' I would argue.

I get if one is a purist...son#2 has had us do Jackson's Hobbit trilogy for the last 3 family movie nights and while it was well made the departure from JRR Tolkiens cannon by Jackson drove me nuts...but then I am geeky enough to have read all of that stuff in my youth. 

As for the (well worn) issue of BS4G (I like that tag BTW) the more I talk with parents and other scouters locally the tide seems to be shifting toward acceptance and even support. So I have NO idea what people IN scouting really think of it...the few outside polls capture folks with little knowledge of scouting and the cooked inside BSA polls are suspect. 

But Kudos to @SSF for getting 6 pages on this thread! Clearly the force is with you.

[RememberSchiff]

The Star Wars franchise is nearly two generations old.  My sons are having a different Stars War experience than I did, same with scouts.

Too bad mine was better for both. 

[SSF]

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

But a movie that is both good and please the fans has the best 'legs' and will over time bring in a lot of money. While there are folks in the entertainment industry to who are trying to promote their art as much as their livelihoods the people who back them are in the business to make money. So that is a potential self correcting feature. Of course the Star Wars franchise is its own pocket universe now with multiple income streams from merchandise, secondary media spin-offs (books, background films, cartoons), and theme parks so that as long as a new film supports that it may matter less if it is good.

And am I crazy...Last Jedi has a 90% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, Eberts (legacy) review site has it at 5 stars. Hardly 'hated by a majority of fans' I would argue.

I get if one is a purist...son#2 has had us do Jackson's Hobbit trilogy for the last 3 family movie nights and while it was well made the departure from JRR Tolkiens cannon by Jackson drove me nuts...but then I am geeky enough to have read all of that stuff in my youth. 

As for the (well worn) issue of BS4G (I like that tag BTW) the more I talk with parents and other scouters locally the tide seems to be shifting toward acceptance and even support. So I have NO idea what people IN scouting really think of it...the few outside polls capture folks with little knowledge of scouting and the cooked inside BSA polls are suspect. 

But Kudos to @SSF for getting 6 pages on this thread! Clearly the force is with you.

But what was Rotten Tomatoes audience score...? You didn't mention that. Did the audience also rate it at 90%?

No, the audience score is an abysmal 50%...lower than any of the prequels; yeah, I think the audience did hate this movie.

Let's also look at the numbers of the sample sizes of the critics vs. audience ratings. We have 318 critics who collectively loved the movie and gave it that average of 90%, but on the flip side we have nearly 170,000 audience ratings from people who thought the movie sucked. 

If you want to delude yourselves into believing that the mass audiences loved the Last Jedi, then that's up  to you, but you'd be wrong. 

The approval rating on girls in the Boy Scouts is much harder to come by, but again, let's be truly honest...this has not been well received by the majority of scouts and scouters, or Americans. It was forced through by Surbaugh just like Kathleen Kennedy forced her belief of "strong women and incompetent men" into the Last Jedi.

If you favor girls in the Boy Scouts, then congrats on your victory. if you like the new feminist direction of Star Wars, and that's your cup of tea, then congrats there as well. 

Again, I've said my peace...that's it for me on this topic.

Edited January 5, 2018 by SSF

[Tampa Turtle]

Only boys are allowed to bull's-eye womp-rats in their T-16's around here. Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating this thread is approximately 3,720 to 1.

Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

[cocomax]

Yeah,  was a big Star Wars fan all my life, but I am just done with it, it is just not fun anymore.  The girls and feminists can have it.  

There is no point complaining or getting upset about it, I am powerless to do anything about it.  The people in charge are not listening, they have their own agenda that I am not a part of.

So it is best that I just walk away and find something that I can enjoy, that will be a better use of my time.

  

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by cocomax

[ianwilkins]

33 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

Wise words you speak.

 

[SSScout]

" ...   soon i'll be a Jed eye...."

Thanks be to Yankovick for making all clear  >> 

 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, cocomax said:

Yeah,  was a big Star Wars fan all my life, but I am just done with it, it is just not fun anymore.  The girls and feminists can have it.  

There is no point complaining or getting upset about it, I am powerless to do anything about it.  The people in charge are not listening, they have their own agenda that I am not a part of.

So it is best that I just walk away and find something that I can enjoy, that will be a better use of my time.

  

 

Yes, we are powerless to do anything about it, both in Hollywood and in BSA.

It does no good to complain, but we can go out to the polls and vote for the most conservative candidate on the ticket who promises to take away many other things that they care about. 

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, SSF said:

...No, the audience score is an abysmal 50%...lower than any of the prequels; yeah, I think the audience did hate this movie.

Let's also look at the numbers of the sample sizes of the critics vs. audience ratings. We have 318 critics who collectively loved the movie and gave it that average of 90%, but on the flip side we have nearly 170,000 audience ratings from people who thought the movie sucked. 

 

So, 85K liked the flick?

But, how much is that the movie vs. the cohort? Here's why I ask: Son #2's girlfreind is just being introduced to LoTR, and seemed rather tepid toward it. (E.g., "Why is there this woman elf all of a sudden?") Or, are there more "haters" out there these days. In other words, has America grown away from battles of extremes. Or, maybe they've seen enough of it in their "real" world, that it's no longer entertaining?

[Sentinel947]

5 hours ago, David CO said:

Yes, we are powerless to do anything about it, both in Hollywood and in BSA.

It does no good to complain, but we can go out to the polls and vote for the most conservative candidate on the ticket who promises to take away many other things that they care about. 

So Donald Trump 20/20. "Make Star Wars male again."

[MattR]

6 pages of jedi talk? you're all bored, have some chocolate ice cream and boost your dopamine.

It's a movie. Disney paid some $4B for the franchise and they're trying to make some new money from an old plot. That's as deep as the plot gets. Based on the last film, I'd say the new one is mostly the same.

[Hawkwin]

On 12/28/2017 at 12:13 AM, SSF said:

To summarize the Star Wars issue, for those unfamiliar, there's been an extreme backlash from a large number of fans and movie goers who are nothing short of disgusted with the movie's story, direction, tone and political and social innuendos made in the movie; i.e. women are great at everything, men are less capable and need female leadership, capitalism is bad, white men and wealthy people are evil.

Spoilers follow.

 

Having just watched it this weekend, I can't see where anyone can leave the theater with the idea that there was some sort of feminist agenda. Also, it wasn't that capitalism is bad, it was that war profiteering was bad.

As far as female leadership, (spoilers follow), Leia almost died, the other female general did die, and the female tech almost died. In the end, Luke sacrificed himself to allow everyone escape.

 

This was the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Hawkwin