Using lure of becoming Eagle Scout to recruit Girls

[NJCubScouter]

13 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Unfortunately that doesn't hold true to course.  One does not need to earn the Webelos badge in order to get AOL.  To be fair that means one doesn't need to earn Life to become an Eagle.  Sure, Cubs receive awards, not rankings, but everyone knows that... right?  The first Helicopter Parent looking to get their daughter into Yale or Harvard isn't going to let a little technicality like that get in the way.

You're being satirical there, right?

[Drastent]

I agree with what most said, however I think marketing it to the girls that they can become Eagle Scouts is something they rightfully should promote. The gold award doesn't have that universal recognition that comes along with being an eagle. They will inherently be forced to see what the whole program entails as they climb through the ranks. Hopefully they don't bend the rules to get these first female eagles pumped out, but placing the mindset into young girls' heads that they can finally become an eagle scout will be more effective for recruiting than just telling them that boy scouts is letting in girls and get them more interested in the program as a whole.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Drastent

[Back Pack]

I’d argue the value of the Eagle rank has been right or wrong perceived as having gotten easier over time. I always hear how much harder it was in the past. Adding girls to the process won’t chnage that mindset just as churning out decent and strong eagles in 2017 doesn’t change the perception of a 1966 Eagle thinking we had it easier. It’s that perception that needs changing but I don’t see any movement to do that. 

[NJCubScouter]

31 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

I’d argue the value of the Eagle rank has been right or wrong perceived as having gotten easier over time. I always hear how much harder it was in the past. Adding girls to the process won’t chnage that mindset just as churning out decent and strong eagles in 2017 doesn’t change the perception of a 1966 Eagle thinking we had it easier. It’s that perception that needs changing but I don’t see any movement to do that. 

Full disclosure here, I stopped at Life, but it is my perception that it has NOT gotten easier.  In some ways it has become more difficult.  Up to a certain point there was no Eagle project.  (I know that was still true in 1965, and I am pretty sure that when I became a Boy Scout in 1969 there was a project, so it must have been in there somewhere.)  Now the paperwork for the project is a project in and of itself.  I also believe that there are more requirements for some of the required MB's than there used to be.  (The "Cits" would be included in that.)  In the other direction you no longer have to earn Lifesaving MB if you earn E-Prep. (You also no longer have to get Swimming, but the vast majority of Scouts do so in my experience, even the ones who can't swim very well, because the requirements for Hiking and Cycling are both pretty onerous.)  Also, the number of total MB's for Eagle have varied over time, prior to 1972 it was 21, then it was 24, and at some time during my 20+ year break from Scouting, it changed back to 21.

My perception is that if we compare 1965 to 2017, overall it is somewhat MORE difficult to make Eagle today.  I know that some others disagree.

[Col. Flagg]

18 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

My perception is that if we compare 1965 to 2017, overall it is somewhat MORE difficult to make Eagle today.  I know that some others disagree.

Five words that prove this thesis wrong:

• Merit Badge Universities
• Helicopter Parents

MBs were much harder to get in the past. Scouts had to find and call counselors. No answering machines. You had to be diligent. Didn't have worksheets and Google to look up answers. I cannot recall a MB I completed in a week, let alone a day.

My parents stayed out of my Scouting except for my dad. He was a TC Chair so he was in meetings are the time, but he stayed WAY out of my way. My mom would not have known where to start with helping me, but she would not have stuck her nose in my business either. She wanted me to grow and Scouting was the way.

Those five words above have literally paved the way for kids to rocket through Scouting. Add in evolution in technology and communications, and these kids have it far easier.

[Chadamus]

Maybe we should say today's Eagle requires more (paperwork, projects), but there are more resources available to achieve it (technology,  parents).

[Col. Flagg]

12 minutes ago, Chadamus said:

Maybe we should say today's Eagle requires more (paperwork, projects), but there are more resources available to achieve it (technology,  parents).

Paperwork does not make the REQUIREMENTS harder. And most units have adults to help the Scouts through the adult-developed paperwork maze.

MBs earned in a day or a few hours. Parents emailing and texting leaders about requirements.

The process was slower back then which made it harder. The Scout had to do everything themselves. Never heard of a helicopter parent unless they were actually pilots.

[RememberSchiff]

IMO girls, particularly girls who excel in classwork, will have an easier time than boys in completing the current Eagle requirements.

If they should comment "it was easy", then I think we will see a return to harder requirements, maybe even pull-up minimums in Personal Fitness.  

Good-bye 300lb Eagle scouts.

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[qwazse]

8 hours ago, Drastent said:

... The gold award doesn't have that universal recognition that comes along with being an eagle. They will inherently be forced to see what the whole program entails as they climb through the ranks. Hopefully they don't bend the rules to get these first female eagles pumped out, but placing the mindset into young girls' heads that they can finally become an eagle scout will be more effective for recruiting than just telling them that boy scouts is letting in girls and get them more interested in the program as a whole.

There's not an admissions officer or military recruiter in the country who doesn't know the worth of GS/USA Gold.

 

[Drastent]

10 minutes ago, qwazse said:

There's not an admissions officer or military recruiter in the country who doesn't know the worth of GS/USA Gold.

These aren't the only places where such an accomplishment matters.

Outside of the United States I'd argue that "Eagle Scout" is much more known than "Gold Award." Plus, some small mom and pop shop you're trying to get an entry-level job at I would argue is much more likely to know Eagle Scout over Gold Award. And it's a shame it is such.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Drastent

[Stosh]

Or..... my oldest daughter achieved Silver, went to college and is a stay at home mom.  My youngest daughter was valdictorian, got a full ride to a major university, dropped out after a year and a half and is a stay at home mom.  Both will home school their children.  Sometimes bling doesn't mean much.  Depends on what one feels is important.  I am pleased with their accomplishments, 3 great grandchildren!

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Paperwork does not make the REQUIREMENTS harder. And most units have adults to help the Scouts through the adult-developed paperwork maze.

MBs earned in a day or a few hours. Parents emailing and texting leaders about requirements.

The process was slower back then which made it harder. The Scout had to do everything themselves. Never heard of a helicopter parent unless they were actually pilots.

The paperwork was so easy for my Eagle, I didn't need anybody else to navigate some paperwork maze. Application:  pen and ink. Project report: 3 pages triple-space typed (as in typewriter), one hand-drawing. Personal statement: one page. Cover: celluloid with decal lettering on the title. Done in half the time involved in the tech hassles Son #1 and Son #2 went through. The best thing about using a typewriter: it never distracted me with instant messages, E-mails, and website notifications. 

[Chadamus]

6 hours ago, Chadamus said:

Maybe we should say today's Eagle requires more (paperwork, projects), but there are more resources available to achieve it (technology,  parents).

 

6 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Paperwork does not make the REQUIREMENTS harder.

True. I should have been clearer and defined "more" as in more effort and sore wrists. 

And most units have adults to help the Scouts through the adult-developed paperwork maze.

This is my experience as well.

MBs earned in a day or a few hours. Parents emailing and texting leaders about requirements.

The process was slower back then which made it harder. The Scout had to do everything themselves. Never heard of a helicopter parent unless they were actually pilots.

Fear not, there are still a few of us parents out there that make our Boys do it the "old fashioned" way. (Shame that It's come to that phrase...) 

 

[qwazse]

18 hours ago, Back Pack said:

I wouldn’t want her to make Eagle for the simple reason that nearly all requirements require you to be Boy Scout when you do them. If the rules start being bent and waived to get girls or anyone else Eagle all you’re doing is cheapening what all Eagles have accomplished. You might as well fold the tent now because no guy I know will want to be part of that poor excuse of a program. 

That's the other problem about modern requirements. I would wretch every year BSA modified a requirement to stipulate, for example, "Boy Scout camping" or the poppycock EDGE method, or the recruitment requirement, or butting in on the SMC with the "duty to God" specification. Plenty of guys I know are not part of the program because of those organization-serving requirements.

If the rules fail to recognize first class scouts as such, then the rules have already cheapened Eagle by making advancement more about identity and less about achievement. 

[WisconsinMomma]

We've got a fictional female scout and people are already arguing that a fictional scout hasn't earned Eagle properly.   Can we wait for real life scenarios? 

In my family's current experience, completing the requirements is taking time.  While there are merit badges at summer camp (campers typically earn 3 over the course of the week if they do all their prep at home beforehand) , and there are short merit badge clinics (also if you prep at home first),  it takes more than a couple hours to earn a badge, and the Eagle required badges requirements are not one day deals. 

In our local troop, most Eagle scouts are finishing right up against their 18th birthday.  

You may call me a helicopter parent, but it's our expectation that our kids spread out the work.  My 13 year old (2nd class) has completed First Aid (at a council sponsored class), Environmental Science (at a two day event at a nature center, with lots of writing homework) and Citizenship in the Nation (it took weeks after our family trip to DC).  He has been logging chores for the last 3 months for Family Life.  My 11 year old (Tenderfoot) has completed Citizenship in the Nation and First Aid --- and he *just* completed the requirements for his blue? swimmer check off.  Woo!  Both boys are working one on one with a swim instructor to help them work on their swimming.   Ideally, they will work with their swim instructor on Swimming and Lifesaving (their swim teacher is a MBC.)   It's a lot of work. 

Rushing to Eagle does not seem like an option for our family.  There's just  no way the boys could do it,  

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by WisconsinMomma
added boys' ranks, typo, added ES homework