Alamo Area Council (TX) first? to register girls in Cubs

[NJCubScouter]

I wish National would NOT call this the "Family Scouting Pilot Program."  Maybe to National, "family" means sons and daughters, but to most people "family" includes the parents as well.  As far as I can tell the role of parents is not changing, either in Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts.

There also are some statements in that article that are misleading, at best.  Such as:

Starting Monday January 1st, girls can register to join the pack. They will have their own girls-only dens, but can now reach the same ranks as the cubs and boy scouts and they will work with the boys on some programs.

They cannot earn the same ranks as Boy Scouts, "now."  They will be able to starting sometime next year. I don't think the writer of the article knows the difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by NJCubScouter

[qwazse]

53 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I wish National would NOT call this the "Family Scouting Pilot Program."  Maybe to National, "family" means sons and daughters, but to most people "family" includes the parents as well.  As far as I can tell the role of parents is not changing, either in Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts.

There also are some statements in that article that are misleading, at best.  ... They cannot earn the same ranks as Boy Scouts, "now."  They will be able to starting sometime next year. I don't think the writer of the article knows the difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

Even if National has toned down the "family scouting" double-speak, it will take another year for it to wash out of the lexicon. And that will only happen if they promote a precise program names. That's why I've stuck with calling it BSA4G (Boy Scouts of America, for Girls) - and not BSA-Mixed, or B+GSA or FSA or Scouting USA or Pre-Ventureing or anything else that muddies the waters around program that the CSE described.

BSA4G also captures the (debatable) notion that the new program offers girls something that they cannot get elsewhere as well as the (also debatable) assurance that traditional units may still retain their flavor as a result of some administrative wall of segregation.

I don't expect a reporter to be sharp on details if National remains guarded as well.

[NJCubScouter]

11 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Even if National has toned down the "family scouting" double-speak, it will take another year for it to wash out of the lexicon.

I see no evidence that they have toned it down.  Have you?  

[ItsBrian]

Just something I’ve observed from reading the original post. They must say “girl(s)” after each rank now. “Tiger girls”, “Tiger boys”. Probably will end up annoying some people.

[qwazse]

9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I see no evidence that they have toned it down.  Have you?  

Yes. They inserted "family" in every headline leading up to and including the survey period with nary a mention of "girls." This caught the ire of many scouters, myself included, who spend a lot bringing youth up to speak plainly and never bury the lead.

In headlines following the survey period (e.g., https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/ , https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/10/11/bsa-welcomes-girls/ , http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/opinions/girls-boy-scouts-surbaugh-opinion/index.html) they explicitly run "girls" in the head, and "family" is referenced as one, among many, motivations.

This is the only evidence that the survey had any impact on National's words or actions.

Of course, they haven't given us a name to apply to these new units/dens. When they do so, they may have us picking terms that obfuscate more than elucidate. (E.g., there's not a Venturer who I've met who did not call themselves Venture Scouts until someone told them otherwise.)

5 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

Just something I’ve observed from reading the original post. They must say “girl(s)” after each rank now. “Tiger girls”, “Tiger boys”. Probably will end up annoying some people.

I think, @ItsBrian, they will certainly have to do something of the sort when addressing the dens. But, I hope the patch will still be the same  "Tiger Cub" regardless of whose pocket it's on.

[NJCubScouter]

38 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

Just something I’ve observed from reading the original post. They must say “girl(s)” after each rank now. “Tiger girls”, “Tiger boys”. Probably will end up annoying some people.

Where do you see that?  The original post does refer to "Webelos II girls" but I think that just means girls who are Webelos II's, not that that is what they have to be called.  Unless I am missing or misreading something.

And by the way, I thought they had gotten rid of the Webelos I/Webelos II terminology and now there is a Webelos den and an Arrow of Light den.  Or was that just a rumor?

[ItsBrian]

15 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Where do you see that?  The original post does refer to "Webelos II girls" but I think that just means girls who are Webelos II's, not that that is what they have to be called.  Unless I am missing or misreading something.

And by the way, I thought they had gotten rid of the Webelos I/Webelos II terminology and now there is a Webelos den and an Arrow of Light den.  Or was that just a rumor?

I was just using tiger as a example. I think they did get rid of I and II due to a day camp that I worked at split it up by webelos and AOL.

[NJCubScouter]

1 minute ago, ItsBrian said:

I was just using tiger as a example. I think they did get rid of I and II due to a day camp that I worked at split it up by webelos and AOL.

It seems to me that if (for example) Den 5 is a Wolf den with boys in it and Den 6 is a Wolf den with girls in it, you could just refer to Den 5 and Den 6, if you want to.  Some people may refer to them as the "girl Wolf den" and the "boy Wolf den", or some other combination of words, but I don't see where the BSA is requiring any particular form of reference.

[NJCubScouter]

54 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Yes. They inserted "family" in every headline leading up to and including the survey period with nary a mention of "girls." This caught the ire of many scouters, myself included, who spend a lot bringing youth up to speak plainly and never bury the lead.

In headlines following the survey period (e.g., https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/ , https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/10/11/bsa-welcomes-girls/ , http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/opinions/girls-boy-scouts-surbaugh-opinion/index.html) they explicitly run "girls" in the head, and "family" is referenced as one, among many, motivations.

This is the only evidence that the survey had any impact on National's words or actions.

Well, the BSA itself is still using "Family Scouting" on their own web site to describe the change.  See https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/family-scouting/   It's the headline of the page.

[ItsBrian]

It must’ve taken a looooong time to replace everything with “family” and “children”

[qwazse]

6 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

Well, the BSA itself is still using "Family Scouting" on their own web site to describe the change.  See https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/family-scouting/   It's the headline of the page.

I'm figuring that much of that page was written a year ago.

Either that, or someone in marketing just won't let it go.

Or, you're right, and we're stuck with double-speak.

[Eagle1993]

On 12/14/2017 at 6:48 PM, ParkMan said:

I'll be interested to see how single sex dens end up working out in practice in these early adopters.  I'm assuming it will be a royal pain and we'll end up with coed dens all over the place.

I think it depends on Pack size.  Let’s say I have a 40 Bear Scouts, 30 boys and 10 girls.  I expect limited issues finding appropriate leadership.  Now, in my Pack, I expect ~12-15 boy Bear Scouts and 2-3 girls.   One of the girls has already been attending all of the Bear den meetings and outings as she is the twin sister of a current member and her mom is one of the den leaders.   We already talked as a Pack and we do no plan on splitting that group.  We already have a male and female den leader for the existing Bear den.  

When they move to Webelos we plan on making those two the same den leaders for the Girl Webelos den and they’ll meet at the same time and place.  I haven’t seen anything that shows this would violate policy (officially they are still two dens both with appropriate leadership).  I also brought this up during  a district meeting and they saw no issue as well.  I’ve talked with several Troops and they also plan a similar style (same leadership, Boy/Girl Troops, same meeting time/place).  

Our Pack leadership has decided to take this on a case by case basis, but I do expect several functionally coed dens  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle1993]

Our council announced that they are looking for some Packs to add girls as early as Jan 15.  Our Pack is considering taking this on and are in discussions with Council on what prerequisites we must have in place.  Will keep you posted if we go ahead....

[NJCubScouter]

On 1/2/2018 at 10:13 PM, qwazse said:

I'm figuring that much of that page was written a year ago.

Either that, or someone in marketing just won't let it go.

Or, you're right, and we're stuck with double-speak.

As I mentioned in another thread, my council now has a "Vice President, Family Scouting."

I think we're stuck with double-speak.