Alamo Area Council (TX) first? to register girls in Cubs

[WisconsinMomma]

I'll describe how Cub Scouting is working in our Pack / dens and perhaps we can figure out how it might work with girl dens.

Our Pack has one Pack overnighter, a Friday - Sunday, with two nights sleeping in cabins.  Tigers stay home.  Wolves - Arrow of Light can come, parents are invited, but not required.  We get a lot of parents, which is understandable because for many of the newer scouts its their first time away from home at this kind of thing.  All the den leaders go, male and female, and no unregistered youth go along, it's  Scouts only.    The leaders who attended are -- Committee Chair (female), Cubmaster (male), Assistant Cubmaster (female), AOL den leader (male), Webelos den leader (male), Bear den leader (female), Wolves den leader (male).   The three women were in the same cabin in a side bunk room with a tarp over the doorway and the cabins have bathrooms for males and females.  Easy peasy, right?   If we had more moms or females, we'd just need to figure a larger sleeping area, and changing could take place in the restrooms.

Now, if the Arrow of light want to go den camping, they'd bring their male leader and a dad or two.   Easy!

I don't really see how it's so difficult.   You pull in parents when needed if you need extra adults.  Get a few parents YPT trained, that's not so hard, is it? 

[WisconsinMomma]

19 minutes ago, Stosh said:

The reason for the double standard is that everyone knows all male scouters are pedophiles, but female scouters aren't.  So much for the emphasis on a Scout is Trustworthy.

Of course that is baloney, but...  let's talk about society in general.  According to this --  Child sex abusers are "overwhelmingly male, ranging from adolescents to the elderly." 
http://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa

So, if the goal is risk mitigation, I can understand it. 

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then,  this topic is about "soft launch" of registering girls in Cub Packs.  There's been some good information provided by a variety of members. Please stay on topic. Thanks

cc: @NJCubScouter, @Sentinel947

Edited December 15, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Of course that is baloney, but...  let's talk about society in general.  According to this --  Child sex abusers are "overwhelmingly male, ranging from adolescents to the elderly." 
http://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa

So, if the goal is risk mitigation, I can understand it. 

Well if we don't want men alone with girls, why allow women to be alone with boys? As I see it, the girls are not in the program yet, but their is already a double standard in how we treat them.

[Stosh]

37 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well if we don't want men alone with girls, why allow women to be alone with boys? As I see it, the girls are not in the program yet, but their is already a double standard in how we treat them.

Bingo!  Welcome to the world of co-ed youth programs.  It gets worse.

[RememberSchiff]

8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well if we don't want men alone with girls, why allow women to be alone with boys? As I see it, the girls are not in the program yet, but their is already a double standard in how we treat them.

So if I understand,  a double standard would be avoided the den gender assignments were as follows: X=female, Y=male ?

Leaders               Den

XX or XY          XXXXXX

YY or XY          YYYYYY            

[Eagle94-A1]

39 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

So if I understand,  a double standard would be avoided the den gender assignments were as follows: X=female, Y=male ?

Leaders               Den

XX or XY          XXXXXX

YY or XY          YYYYYY            

Correct. Or keep it as it is currently  which is

X=Male  Y=Female  CS= Cub Scout of either gender

Den Leaders                                               Single Gender Den

XX or YY or XY                                             CS, CS, CS, CS

 

 

[Stosh]

I like @Eagle94-A1 's illustration over @RememberSchiff's  It doesn't point out the obvious segregationalism being promoted by the BSA. 

Having grown up in the 1960's, I do know the code words "separate but equal" and what that really meant.  The more I hear about this process, the more I realize it is some arbitrary half-measure of appeasement.  That's not going to last long, I'm afraid.

[WisconsinMomma]

10 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well if we don't want men alone with girls, why allow women to be alone with boys? As I see it, the girls are not in the program yet, but their is already a double standard in how we treat them.

In my experience as a female Den Leader working with boys, I have never really been alone with boys.  There are always parents around, and that's a good thing -- I welcome an extra set of adult hands and eyes.   Our CC's son was in my den so she was also around a lot of the time.   I am allowed to be alone with the boys but that's never how it worked out, and IMO, that's good!

Should a man be allowed to work alone with a group of girls?  In theory yes,  In practice, that's not how it's going to work out anyway, the girls will have parents sitting in the back of the meeting room, etc.  Camp outs have different adult requirements, of course.   This is also a matter of marketing.  Parents of girls will be protective of them, and a cautious parent will not let a male leader be alone with a group of 6 year old girls, whether its in the policies or not.  They'll show up. 

And what kind of guy is going to want to be left alone with a group of 6 year old girls?  If he's smart, he's going to want some help!   If he insists on not having other adults around, that is an important red flag. 

Back to the soft launch, many Packs have moms and dads involved.  There should be a supply of adults of both genders, and as I've said before, new female Cubs will come along with parents who care about them, so a shortage of adult leaders is not necessarily a concern yet. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by WisconsinMomma

[Eagle94-A1]

I think you are missing my point: the double standard. While you can have two females working with an all male den, you MUST have a female working with an all girl den.

In my experience as a DL, it was the fathers who stayed around and helped out. Occasionally mothers were there and helped. But for the most part the mothers would always gravitate to committee roles.

While  I know first hand that 2 adults, and in some cases even more, are needed to work with dens, under BSA's new rules, YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE FEMALE  TO WORK WITH THE GIRLS BUT YOU DO NOT NEED ONE MALE TO WORK WITH THE BOYS! ( caps for emphasis) So you cannot have a bunch of dads working with their daughters. But a bunch of moms can work with their sons.

 

BSA needs to either keep the current policy, or change it to a fairer one.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

10 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well if we don't want men alone with girls, why allow women to be alone with boys? As I see it, the girls are not in the program yet, but their is already a double standard in how we treat them.

Seems, at least in the greater Tampa Bay area more reported incidences of female teachers sleeping with teenage boys. Sometimes they are married with kids! While I am sure the ratio of female creepos is astronomically less than male creepos the fact is IF you are a female attracted to boys than BSA risk management should make this is two-way street. The policies should mirror each other...which it will AFTER something happens....then we will get an upbeat policy change announcement.

[Tampa Turtle]

The Video was very helpful regardless.

[ParkMan]

But even if makes are statistically likely to be abuse youth, doesn't the existing two deep leadership approach provide sufficient checks?  

[qwazse]

22 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

But even if makes are statistically likely to be abuse youth, doesn't the existing two deep leadership approach provide sufficient checks?  

Against abuse by a determined predator? No.

Against legal action? Maybe.

Against biased criticism in this politically charged environment? Not a chance.

[RememberSchiff]

Keller, TX * Pack Among the first to welcome girl members.

Starting Monday January 1st, girls can register to join Keller Pack 450. which "will have their own girls-only dens, but can now reach the same ranks as the cubs and boy scouts and they will work with the boys on some programs."

..."Keller Pack 450 will be part of the Family Scouting Pilot Program.".

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Keller-Cub-Scout-Pack-Among-the-First-to-Welcome-Girls-467613303.html

*Note: I believe Keller, TX is served by the Alamo Area Council.