BSA Hammock Rules

[perdidochas]

On 12/11/2017 at 9:38 AM, Tampa Turtle said:

Old fat middle aged men struggling to get our of a hammock look remarkably like a turtle trapped on his back....anything for the enjoyment of the lads.

I resemble that remark, especially when using my extra wide hammock (72" wide).  

 

That is why I always hang my hammock with the other adult tents between me and the Scout tents.  

[Stosh]

I've never had this problem of getting out of a hammock.  At my age, I haven't figured out how to get in to begin with.

[CalicoPenn]

I'm calling foul at use of a certain word here (which is included in the thread title).

These are NOT BSA rules.  These are not BSA policy. 

These are safety pointers - suggestions for using a hammock safely and without doing damage to trees. 

No where in any of this is the word must or any other word that would require you to follow these pointers.

Everything is written on a "should" basis. 

We spend more than enough time going back of forth on actual rules and policies.  Can we stop getting people all hyped up over things that are not intended to be policy or rules?

Seriously, what's next?  If the BSA were to put together pointers on making great blueberry pancakes which recommends that if using canned or thawed frozen blueberries, you drain the juice off first so that the pancakes don't turn green, will we then have to spend the next 5 years trying to calm people down that claim that it is a BSA rule to drain blueberries?

[4CouncilsScouter]

@CalicoPenn

Semantics aside, we have a responsibility as Scouters and volunteers in this organization to adhere to established program policies/rules/guidelines. The purpose of BSA Health and Safety Alerts and BSA Safety Moments are to call attention to situations to which there is a present or probable situation in which members could be harmed. They're used to keep our youth safe and enable their leaders to make sound decisions based on the collective experiences/research of volunteers across the country.

They're not issued for "blueberry pancakes" preferences.

[CalicoPenn]

22 minutes ago, 4CouncilsScouter said:

@CalicoPenn

Semantics aside, we have a responsibility as Scouters and volunteers in this organization to adhere to established program policies/rules/guidelines. The purpose of BSA Health and Safety Alerts and BSA Safety Moments are to call attention to situations to which there is a present or probable situation in which members could be harmed. They're used to keep our youth safe and enable their leaders to make sound decisions based on the collective experiences/research of volunteers across the country.

They're not issued for "blueberry pancakes" preferences.

Yes - we have a responsibility to adhere to established program policies and rules - ACTUAL policies and rules.  We also have a responsibility NOT to create our own policies and rules.

Part of that means not turning things the BSA sends out as helpful hints or safety reminders that have nothing to do with policies and rules into some kind of defacto policy or rule and then get even more people upset about the ridiculous policies and rules that the BSA creates when the fact is the BSA never did so in the first place.

These are NOT BSA policies and rules.  They are simply safety tips to make hammock usage more enjoyable.  They are as much policy and rules as tips in the Boy Scout Handbook on how to best site a tent.

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then,  back to hammocks. 

Has anyone tried the Sierra Madre hammocks? I saw their sales pitch on Shark Tank recently. I was impressed and so was Branson.

[4CouncilsScouter]

@CalicoPenn

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't believe anyone ever claimed to have created this on their own accord. This came from the Health and Safety team at the National Service Center. It's a BSA document and can be found on multiple, official BSA sites.

Moreover, given the imperative mood used, I'd consider it to be hard and fast policies from these "safety points... taken into consideration":

• Never attach a hammock to any object that could move, such as vehicle bumpers or trailers.
• Never “stack” hammocks one above another.
• Do not hang a hammock above water, including at a waterfront, lake, river, or stream.
• Never swing or stand in a hammock. Falls from hammocks can cause serious or fatal injuries.
• Do not use a hammock that has frayed or damaged ropes. Use only the manufacturer’s replacement ropes.
• Do not put more weight into a hammock than recommended by the manufacturer.

If these were suggestions, we'd see less commanding verbiage used. In any case, the majority of these "safety points" are stuff responsible hammock users have been doing for years.

[CalicoPenn]

3 hours ago, 4CouncilsScouter said:

@CalicoPenn

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't believe anyone ever claimed to have created this on their own accord. This came from the Health and Safety team at the National Service Center. It's a BSA document and can be found on multiple, official BSA sites.

Moreover, given the imperative mood used, I'd consider it to be hard and fast policies from these "safety points... taken into consideration":

• Never attach a hammock to any object that could move, such as vehicle bumpers or trailers.
• Never “stack” hammocks one above another.
• Do not hang a hammock above water, including at a waterfront, lake, river, or stream.
• Never swing or stand in a hammock. Falls from hammocks can cause serious or fatal injuries.
• Do not use a hammock that has frayed or damaged ropes. Use only the manufacturer’s replacement ropes.
• Do not put more weight into a hammock than recommended by the manufacturer.

If these were suggestions, we'd see less commanding verbiage used. In any case, the majority of these "safety points" are stuff responsible hammock users have been doing for years.

Yes - it came from the BSA Health and Safety Team - they issue a lot of health and safety hints and tips - its one of the ways the BSA tries to educate folks.  But they weren't creating policy or rules when they created this and made it available.  They were providing folks with safety tips.  No where does this say these are policies and rules of the BSA.

I think you are missing my point - and my point is that too often, Scouters take these things that National sometimes creates and believe that they are now policies and rules when they are not meant to be.

I can understand how people could take that list you've included and decide that because of the imperative mood, they much be rules or policies of the BSA.  However, those are included in a list that begins "The following hammock safety points should be taken into consideration" - there is a key word in there - should.  Those listed items aren't sitting alone in a vacuum.  They are part and parcel of all the safety points that should (not must) be taken in to consideration.

This is just a simple list of helpful hints and tips - lets not turn it in to something more than it is.

 

 

 

 

[Cambridgeskip]

I occasionally hammock.

One night the wind shifted round to be at right angles to the hammock. I ended up getting sea sick from the swaying!

Weird thing is I don't actually get sea sick at sea.

[njdrt-rdr]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:03 PM, Eagledad said:

I tried the hammock because I'm always looking for something to smooth out the hard ground. But I couldn't fall a sleep while shaped like a taco shell.

Scouts enjoyed it for naps.

Barry

I haven't slept on a hammock in cold weather but I was intrigued about trying a hammock for sleeping. I'm a short really fat dude and didn't want to try one in public. we had an empty lean to at summer camp and I strung one up in there. Didn't want to have the boys watch me try and navigate a hammock for the first time or trying to roll out of the thing.....It was a bit rough for me to get out of. But OMG....I slept solid all night long and never woke up...that doesn't happen to me even sleeping on cot or a bunk...I loved it...

[Tampa Turtle]

On 12/13/2017 at 4:24 PM, Cambridgeskip said:

I occasionally hammock.

One night the wind shifted round to be at right angles to the hammock. I ended up getting sea sick from the swaying!

Weird thing is I don't actually get sea sick at sea.

I once hammocked in a Tropical Storm with 35 to 45 mph gusts perpendicular to my hammock. I prayed real hard not to sway all the way into the trees. I actually fared better than the boys in tents. 

 njdrt-rdr I recommend practcing rigging, knotting, and getting in the Hammock over a weekend at home. It is pretty hard to set up on a dark Friday night. Always embarrassing when a scout wanders over to help me out.

[Stosh]

18 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I once hammocked in a Tropical Storm with 35 to 45 mph gusts perpendicular to my hammock. I prayed real hard not to sway all the way into the trees. I actually fared better than the boys in tents. 

 njdrt-rdr I recommend practcing rigging, knotting, and getting in the Hammock over a weekend at home. It is pretty hard to set up on a dark Friday night. Always embarrassing when a scout wanders over to help me out.

Embarrassing?  A scout who helps other people at all times?  What's wrong with you?  I practice a little "Creative Incompetence" at times to provide the opportunity for a scout to come up and say, "Mr. Stosh, you need some help with that?"  On a serious note, that's how I identify my future leaders, those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and help other people at all times.  The magic words from the scout's mouth, "What can I do to help?" is music to my ears.

[Tampa Turtle]

54 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Embarrassing?  A scout who helps other people at all times?  What's wrong with you?  I practice a little "Creative Incompetence" at times to provide the opportunity for a scout to come up and say, "Mr. Stosh, you need some help with that?"  On a serious note, that's how I identify my future leaders, those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and help other people at all times.  The magic words from the scout's mouth, "What can I do to help?" is music to my ears.

I have my pride. And there are times I like to practice my own scout-craft--I want to have fun too. But YES always a good sign. The older I get the more help I accept.

[Stosh]

Yeah, I hear you on the pride issue.  But I find it easy to swallow that pride when I'm trying to help out the boys.  At least that's the self-justification I feed myself.  I do find that the older I get the easier it is to take a pass on the pride issue.  I ain't 17 anymore, it's been a while.

[perdidochas]

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I once hammocked in a Tropical Storm with 35 to 45 mph gusts perpendicular to my hammock. I prayed real hard not to sway all the way into the trees. I actually fared better than the boys in tents. 

 njdrt-rdr I recommend practcing rigging, knotting, and getting in the Hammock over a weekend at home. It is pretty hard to set up on a dark Friday night. Always embarrassing when a scout wanders over to help me out.

I agree with you about the practice thing, and not wanting help.  I have asked scouts for help on other things, but I think I'd be a bit embarassed to get help with the hammock.