Money

[Amynh]

Is  a cub scout pack under the same charter as a boy scout troop  have to give money to the troop or the charter other than dues for rechartering puropses?

 

[RememberSchiff]

@Amynh welcome to scouter.com

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Amynh said:

Is  a cub scout pack under the same charter as a boy scout troop  have to give money to the troop or the charter other than dues for rechartering puropses?

 

First of all, welcome to the forum.

I'm kinda confused on this one.  A pack with a Charter Org has a charter and even if the troop has the same Charter Org, they have a separate charter.  Each unit charters separately.  Register money goes to the committee of the unit and sent into council separately.  The troop has nothing to do with the pack's rechartering.

[Col. Flagg]

1 hour ago, Amynh said:

Is  a cub scout pack under the same charter as a boy scout troop  have to give money to the troop or the charter other than dues for rechartering puropses?

 

If the pack and the troop belong to the same charter org, there could be a few different issues at play.

The troop will usually have their own dues ($34, $46 if you add in Boys' Life). Some troops charge other annual fees to cover awards, ranks, equipment, etc. So the minimum you could be expected to pay a troop would be $34 ($46 if you wanted Boys' Life).

Packs would be similar. Their dues to BSA would be $34 ($46) for each Scout. Like troops, packs might have "other" expenses for which they collect "dues".

For example: Troop 123 has annuals dues of $100 per Scout. Of that $100, $34 goes to BSA for recharter dues, $12 pays for Boys' Life. The remaining $54 might cover awards, equipment fee and other operating costs.

Both packs and troops only owe BSA the $34/$46 per Scout. Other than that, whatever they collect goes to their unit for other purposes. You might want to have the pack and the troop breakdown what their dues goes to. If they cannot answer that question, to me that would be a red flag. Every unit should know what their dues covers.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Amynh]

Col. Flagg

This was what I thought too. However, we had a pack meeting last night. Our Charter states that our cub scout pack owes our troop pack for things that we have not been paying for. they don't elaborate on what these things are just we owe it. The Troop and the pack do have their own accounts and treasurers  but our pack and the troop do belong to the same charter. 

[Stosh]

@Amynh If the troop is paying for things that should be split between the pack and troop, the troop should be able to identify what that is.  A simple statement that says one owes money is not appropriate anywhere in the business world.  Might as well ask for a signed blank check.  Itemized statement would go a long way to clarify this situation.

[numbersnerd]

It sounds like the Pack has some bylaws regarding a relationship and shared resources with the Troop that are sponsored by the same organization. I agree, these types of things need to be transparent and fully explained if families are expected to fund these arrangements. *IF* I were to guess, it would likely be something like borrowing and use of Troop gear for the Pack camping events, or something similar (storage unit shared by both.) I've seen that happen, but couldn't understand why simply loaning out gear if not otherwise in use wouldn't be acceptable unless it was damaged or destroyed.

[Col. Flagg]

20 minutes ago, Amynh said:

Col. Flagg

This was what I thought too. However, we had a pack meeting last night. Our Charter states that our cub scout pack owes our troop pack for things that we have not been paying for. they don't elaborate on what these things are just we owe it. The Troop and the pack do have their own accounts and treasurers  but our pack and the troop do belong to the same charter. 

Wow. Well, it sounds fishy to me. I mean, no one ever says "You owe this" without showing what is owed and why? If they cannot break it down then that's a red flag in my book. I would not be cutting a check to any group that could not tell me how my money is being used OR what I am getting for that cost.

[scoutldr]

Have the Pack treasurer sit down with the Troop treasurer over a cup of coffee and say, "so explain this to me.  What do we owe, to whom do we owe it and what is it for?"  One fly in the ointment that I haven't seen mentioned is that the Chartered Organization (CO) owns both units, including their equipment and funds and they can pretty much do what they want with it.  You may not agree, and it may not be "fair", but it is what it is.

[Jameson76]

On 12/8/2017 at 4:49 PM, Col. Flagg said:

The troop will usually have their own dues ($34, $46 if you add in Boys' Life). Some troops charge other annual fees to cover awards, ranks, equipment, etc. So the minimum you could be expected to pay a troop would be $34 ($46 if you wanted Boys' Life).

 

National registration is $33 as of 12/1/2017

This change will affect Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Venturing crews and Sea Scout ships. However, it will not apply to LDS-sponsored units, nor to those units with council-paid memberships.

 

[Col. Flagg]

19 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

National registration is $33 as of 12/1/2017

This change will affect Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Venturing crews and Sea Scout ships. However, it will not apply to LDS-sponsored units, nor to those units with council-paid memberships.

 

Right, $33. Not sure why I had $34 in my head.

My understanding was that BL was still an extra $12 for Scouts who register with BSA, $24 if you are not registered or want a subscription otherwise.

Point was that when some troops charge $100 a year, only $33 of that goes to BSA, another $12 to BL, the rest goes to the troop.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, Col. Flagg said:

Right, $33. Not sure why I had $34 in my head.

 

You are just trying to be helpful, the Great Summit Bechtel Reserve Resort and Amusement Park is not gonna pay for itself....

[Pale Horse]

6 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Right, $33. Not sure why I had $34 in my head.

 

Perhaps your Council charges an extra $1 for insurance similar to ours (Great Lakes Field Service Council).

[Col. Flagg]

20 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Perhaps your Council charges an extra $1 for insurance similar to ours (Great Lakes Field Service Council).

Apparently they are still charging $15. 

Someone should register and hold them to this publicized amount. 

[blw2]

in a pure sense, the way it's "supposed to be", as I understand it

is pack and troop are each their own independent unit.....like separate companies.  

They are each responsible for and each control their own coffers, maintain their own "bank" accounts, pay their own bills

the charter org's "ownership" comes into play more in a situation where a unit dissolves....closes shop.  In such a case, the unit's committee is still responsible to use that unit's assets to pay off any debts, etc.... then hand over any remaining assets to the CO for future scouting use.

Now, that being said, the CO could I suppose very well institute their own twist to any of this.  they may require that the money is held in their account, managed by their people.  I suppose they could require that they are the ones to write the checks.

I've also heard it theorized over the years the possibility of shared committees between a troop and pack...even though on paper they would still be separate.  Personally, I think this has some merit.

Anyway, my guess in this case is that maybe there was some standing agreement that the troop and pack would collectively donate something to the CO regularly.  they paid both shares and now want to collect what's due them.  That's the only scenario I can imagine....