How about those who prefer leaders keep their hands off the kids?

[perdidochas]

On 12/8/2017 at 5:58 PM, David CO said:

My students and scouts don't like shaking hands. They regard it as terribly old-fashioned and hopelessly out of date. They tell me that only old people want to shake hands. 

Glad I live in a more traditional community. Shaking hands is how most adult men friends greet each other.  Most of the boys greet us that way if we haven't seen them in a while.  

[Stosh]

Okay, it was 50+ years ago when they pinned the Bobcat pin on me.  I don't remember it, so it must not have traumatized me.  I do know I was tipped upside down only because I remember everyone else getting tipped.

On the other hand, it might have been so traumatic that my emotional preservation tactics blocked it from my memory.  I might be able to get into a hypnosis therapy session to find out for sure.  Otherwise I can't sue my parents or any of the offensive Scouters who are all probably dead and gone by now.

Is there a statute of limitation on this or do I have a legitimate case?

[perdidochas]

On 12/9/2017 at 4:06 PM, Sentinel947 said:

 

Wow I didn't realize shaking somebodies hand was such a big deal. First time on this forum that I feel like an out of touch dinosaur. Obviously there's something to be said about maintaining appropriate boundaries, even more so with small children or somebody of the opposite gender. However, I didn't realize shaking one of my scouts hand's would be viewed as some kind of harassment. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the points made in the thread. 

Well, I got the same impression as you did.  That suddenly shaking hands is what old-fashioned molesters do.  

[perdidochas]

On 12/10/2017 at 6:05 AM, WisconsinMomma said:

He pulled that comment in from the Girls in Scouting thread.  And I stick by it:  people who  feel that girls are less than should not work with girls when they join the program.  And I was speaking generally, not talking about anyone in particular. 

I think he was writing in general as well. 

[perdidochas]

On 12/10/2017 at 9:12 AM, RememberSchiff said:

But those customs are communicated, do we do as well?

Take the scout handshake, I have often heard Dads make comments  like "Why not shake like a man. Aren't you teaching them to be men."  They were unaware of the tradition and its reason.

Really?  I don't see the scout handshake as not being manly.  The same rules apply--firm handshake, etc., as in conventional handshaking. The difference is the hand that is used.  

[Stosh]

I've worked with hundreds if not thousands of youth in co-ed program and never felt that the gals were "less" and yet I am firmly against destroying a boy's program just for PL inclusiveness issues.  I would feel the same way if I was a GS/USA leader.

[perdidochas]

On 12/11/2017 at 8:50 AM, Tampa Turtle said:

Well that simplifies things. Yeah that no hugging rule gonna be real hard for Troops when teenage girls arrive in force IMHO. Of course as a well-middle aged man I have perfected my cloak of invisibility among teenage girls. I suspect that is better than being on the 'icky radar'.

We have a few female leaders that the Scouts would like to hug (they are momma figures, as they used to be Cub Scout Den leaders).  The solution is side hugs, which is usually considered benign.That will probably be the solution if teenaged girls enter the troops.  

[Tampa Turtle]

7 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Okay, it was 50+ years ago when they pinned the Bobcat pin on me.  I don't remember it, so it must not have traumatized me.  I do know I was tipped upside down only because I remember everyone else getting tipped.

On the other hand, it might have been so traumatic that my emotional preservation tactics blocked it from my memory.  I might be able to get into a hypnosis therapy session to find out for sure.  Otherwise I can't sue my parents or any of the offensive Scouters who are all probably dead and gone by now.

Is there a statute of limitation on this or do I have a legitimate case?

Stosh, you are insensitive.."Shaken Bobcat Syndrome" is a thing. I guess we should be glad BP said "Do a Good Turn everyday" rather then "Give it a Good Poke now and then".

[Stosh]

Is "turn"ing a new Cub upside down considered a good turn?

[Eagledad]

On 12/8/2017 at 1:28 PM, WisconsinMomma said:

My objection is to this hanging Bobcats upside down for pinning their patch nonsense.  I understand it was done long ago, but I'm glad it's gone.  It was interesting that someone mentioned it, I had never heard of it before.   Given that the BSA has discouraged the practice and it hasn't been around for more than 20 years, it's not really a problem.  As far as being a new person to Scouting, yes, it's not the 1990's anymore.   That's where I was going with the touching -- the holding kids upside down -- that's no good.   Don't approve, BSA got it right. 

The BSA did not get it right. I sent the original post mentioning this ceremony to point out Nationals dishonesty when they justified their ban as a form of hazing. They could have just said it is dangerous, and everyone would have said fine. But their justification of hazing was at the very least unprofessional. 

National has made a lot of decisions that have given me pause to their motivation and management ability of the organization. But, calling the Bobcat Ceremony an act of hazing was my first Red Flag of their callus unprofessionalism toward the organization's members.  That was the mid 90s.

Barry

[Tampa Turtle]

"But, calling the Bobcat Ceremony an act of hazing was my first Red Flag of their callus unprofessionalism toward the organization's members." - Turtles startles, looking up from his workbench where he was filling the water pistols with Kool Aid.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Tampa Turtle

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, perdidochas said:

Well, in Cubs, we used to pin the badges on upside down (with the scout right side up), until they did a good deed.  

Same as us, and my troop does that also, with the mother's pins.  I have never heard of this turning-kids-upside-down thing other than on the Internet.

[Stosh]

7 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Same as us, and my troop does that also, with the mother's pins.  I have never heard of this turning-kids-upside-down thing other than on the Internet.

Obviously you had a politically correct deprived childhood.  The rest of us had to endure the parental abuse of the notorious Bobcat Ceremony of Impending Death by Dropping.

And please explain the rationale behind the mother's pin being turned upside down.  More than anyone in the world mothers do more good turns daily than anyone could imagine.

[Tampa Turtle]

7 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Obviously you had a politically correct deprived childhood.  The rest of us had to endure the parental abuse of the notorious Bobcat Ceremony of Impending Death by Dropping.

And please explain the rationale behind the mother's pin being turned upside down.  More than anyone in the world mothers do more good turns daily than anyone could imagine.

Mrs Turtle reminded me Son#1 declined inversion and in fact would not go up on stage; he got his pin down below. Son#2, the little monkey, not only was flipped for his but asked for a repeat and was dipped and swung about. 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, perdidochas said:

Sad to say, it's because for whatever reason, scouters have a worse reputation in terms of molesters than do coaches.  

Yes they do.

My CO applies the same policy about physical contact to both coaches and scouters, but we get a lot more pushback from the scouters than we do from the coaches.  

I don't think we would catch as much flack from coaches and parents if we were to ask them to stop flipping the young athletes at awards ceremonies. They would be far more compliant, and they would give many fewer complaints.

I think the public might be less suspicious of scouters if they were seen to be more agreeable to accepting the restrictions placed on them by their CO's.