How about those who prefer leaders keep their hands off the kids?

[WisconsinMomma]

2 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

But neither would I be so petty, so melodramatic, 

Play nice.  You don't need to take down people who disagree with you.  Stick to the ideas and don't make it personal.

Edited December 10, 2017 by WisconsinMomma

[Stosh]

Pssssst.... I think he's talking about himself.

[Chadamus]

I thought when a Scout received an award a congratulatory handshake went along with it. Must just be our Troop...

[Stosh]

I'm thinking I read it somewhere, I may be wrong, though, that there was some BSA publication, maybe one of the books somewhere, where one of the requirements might have had something to do with something called a Scout "handshake".  A bit of a brief explanation and maybe a picture.  Maybe @TAHAWK can drum up a reference for it from somewhere.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

It was a Tenderfoot test to give the Scout Handclasp in the B.S.A., Boy Scout Handbook, 7th Ed. at p. 34 (1969).

 

It was Joining Requirement to know the Scout Handclasp.  B.S.A., Official Boy Scout Handbook, 9th (Bill Hillcourt) Ed., at pp. 11 and 47 (1980).

 

As the "Scout Handshake," knowing how to give it s now a Scout rank requirement,  B.S.A., Boy Scout Handbook, 13th Ed., at p. 10 (2015).

[numbersnerd]

On 11/21/2017 at 2:09 PM, WisconsinMomma said:

When the girls come in, the male chauvinists can get out.   

 

4 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Play nice.  You don't need to take down people who disagree with you.  Stick to the ideas and don't make it personal.

 

[an_old_DC]

47 minutes ago, numbersnerd said:

 

 

So that’s what Wis Momma wrote before she edited her post. Male Chauvinists huh? Terrific

[Cambridgeskip]

13 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

I would give this post about 100 up votes if I could. My Commissioner corps reports that among the units they serve, the most common problem has become helping leaders who are worn out from dealing with helicopter and bulldozer parents looking to smooth their sons’s path so he doesn’t encounter obstacles.

Many of my staff are long time Scouters who are products of the program themselves, have been CM and SM, and have been Commissioners and district volunteers a long time, and so have a wealth of experience. Bringing in girls and their parents? As Luke Skywalker used to say “They have a bad feeling about this.” It isn’t the girls themselves that will be the problem, it’s how the units and therefore Program will change due to parents and unit leaders.

 

 

Interestingly all the instances of dealing with helicopter parents I've had this year has been parents of boys.

The dad who wanted to know why his son wasn't a PL yet. (He didn't get chosen by the PLC) The mum who wanted to know why her son didn't have his chief scouts gold and was left to do (why isn't your son having this conversation with me?) and various others.

had no such issues with parents of my girls.

In fact as a counter example I spent a few mins on Thursday chatting to one of my older girls about the last thing she needs to do for her CSG. She approached me. No need for mum or dad to be involve.

Just an observation 

[WisconsinMomma]

5 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

So that’s what Wis Momma wrote before she edited her post. Male Chauvinists huh? Terrific

He pulled that comment in from the Girls in Scouting thread.  And I stick by it:  people who  feel that girls are less than should not work with girls when they join the program.  And I was speaking generally, not talking about anyone in particular. 

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then, less bickering please.

So far, our more thoughtful replies have mentioned trust, mutual respect, traditions, stricter CO policies, communication, cultural issues, instructional needs, and a change in parental concerns/fears. 

In the special case of a handshake; it seems a simple act of respect but the person "on the other hand" may not agree.

From Bryan's Tuesday Talkback Feb 11, 2014

...there may be some parents (and even Scouts and Scouters) who because of their culture are not willing to shake using the left hand. There are some cultures, too, that don’t like to shake hands at all. We should respect their wishes.

Some units, meanwhile, have a policy to only use the Scout handshake while in Scout uniform. I can find no argument against that practice and would leave that decision to the unit’s leaders (adult leaders in Cub Scouts and youth leaders in Boy Scouts and Venturers).

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/02/11/tuesday-talkback-who-should-use-the-scout-handshake/

Outside, the snow is clean and peaceful.

[numbersnerd]

Could or should it have been posted in the other thread? Perhaps, but there's been some bleed over between the two and the references are much closer here. But I posted that for many reasons. One because of the size and depth of the impression the initial post made. Then the play nice post was so incongruent with that.

And it highlights something I fear is likely: the introduction of a double standard. Comments made by one gender are interpreted differently when uttered by the other. As it is now, boys are on equal footing because, well, they are all boys. The introduction of girls into the mix (spare me the separate units argument, it's already being undermined and disappears in multi-unit activities) only makes this more possible. Now they will have a set of proverbial eggshells to walk on. And when the rebukes devolve from "that's not nice" into "stop the bullying", the rate at which boys decline to join the program will only accelerate. Do boys need to learn how to navigate the intricasies of dealing with girls, socially and otherwise? Of course. I just don't think Scouts, especially 11-14, is the right setting.

Also, I fail to see how Latin Scot's post was directed at anyone specifically as nobody was quoted, named, or otherwise singled out. More of a blanket statement, similar to others that have been issued.

[Back Pack]

In some cultures wearing a certain color is offensive, having women with men is offensive, eating with the wrong hand is offensive, eating during daylight is offensive, doing anything on a particular day is offensive, etc. Picking which customs we will and won’t honor is a slippery slope isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be using accepted American customs? Otherwise we will find ourselves with some local units barring and not talking to women. They won’t be chauvinists, they’ll be practicing their culture. 

[RememberSchiff]

Please stay on topic, which is issues with touching scouts in the course of the program.

[RememberSchiff]

5 minutes ago, Back Pack said:

In some cultures wearing a certain color is offensive, having women with men is offensive, eating with the wrong hand is offensive, eating during daylight is offensive, doing anything on a particular day is offensive, etc. Picking which customs we will and won’t honor is a slippery slope isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be using accepted American customs? Otherwise we will find ourselves with some local units barring and not talking to women. They won’t be chauvinists, they’ll be practicing their culture. 

But those customs are communicated, do we do as well?

Take the scout handshake, I have often heard Dads make comments  like "Why not shake like a man. Aren't you teaching them to be men."  They were unaware of the tradition and its reason.

Edited December 10, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Back Pack]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

But those customs are communicated, do we do as well?

Take the scout handshake, I have often heard Dads make comments  like "Why not shake like a man. Aren't you teaching them to be men." 

Not sure your point.